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Will the Flagstick Rule Make the Cut?


iacas
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Flagstick Rule  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. Will the proposed rule - that you can leave the flagstick in and hit it when putting without penalty - make the cut for the August semi-finalized Rules for 2019?

    • Yes, it will still be in there.
      23
    • No, it will be removed.
      13


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8 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

At best they save 15 minutes on the round on a good day. I bet most people will not even notice it.

Off topic, but I would notice an extra 15 minutes added to my round--I already do notice when it happens. (Admittedly, I'm not most people--just a sample size of one.)

On topic, I think this rule will be added. Not saying it should be, but I think it will be. 

Craig
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7 hours ago, chilepepper said:

I voted yes. But I'll still leave it in chipping off the green. Putting, depends, the flagstick is rarely straight so it can hurt you if you don't pay attention

A flagstick that leans slightly is actually more likely to help you more. It has to be leaning too much for a ball to fit for it to be a disadvantage. That's a lot of lean.

If the rule goes through, you and everyone else should almost always leave the flagstick in.

7 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Voted "yes" the proposed Rule change will stay on the docket.  If the stated goal is simplicity, making in or out irrelevant to the Rules seems to follow that idea.

I don't think that "if you hit the flagstick when putting from on the green you get two strokes" is terribly complex. It's very simple as it is.

6 hours ago, Jmdmbike said:

I voted yes - I'll continue to pull the pin while putting though as thats the way I've always played.  

You're costing yourself an advantage, then, and you'd be well advised to leave it in if the rule goes through.

6 hours ago, David in FL said:

That explains the pace of play piece in a nutshell.  Many people, now given the choice will be examining the pin to decide in or out.  Potentially times 4 for every group.  

In, out, in, out...on every hole.  Kill me now!  :doh:

Yes. Exactly. My objection is two-fold:

  • It provides an advantage, overall.
  • It will likely SLOW play, not speed up play, because of all the waffling people will do. Instead of the flagstick coming out once, it'll come out two or three times per group, perhaps.
1 hour ago, Blackjack Don said:

For me, personally, it speeds up the game. Leave it in, hit when you're ready, makes the game go much quicker.

It would be quicker if EVERYONE always left it in. But people are dumb, and they take it out even when current rules let them leave it in, and when it's to their advantage to leave it in.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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I played with the remove the pin guy today.

Dude was actually pretty good otherwise. His tee shots were outrageous. But he'd have me remove the pin anytime he was within 10 yards of the green. Oddly, every shot finished short. Go figure.

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I voted no. Always thought the traditionalists would have a fit about it.

I don't care either way. I'm putting with the stick in if they let me.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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21 hours ago, iacas said:

It would be quicker if EVERYONE always left it in. But people are dumb, and they take it out even when current rules let them leave it in, and when it's to their advantage to leave it in.

Ah, yes, agree with that. However, given the laziness inherent in all of us, give it time. In time, leaving it in will be normalized. In time, you might be hearing "You can take it out?" more often than "Leave it in or out?" on the apron.

I see hitting the flag at anything other than pretty dead on is a random event. As a poker player, I accept random events over which no one can gain an advantage. Everyone has the same luck. I believe thinking leaving the pin in gives an advantage is engaging in too much belief in the power of dumb luck. It's like a superstition more than a fact.

Anyone who can use the pin to their advantage probably hits better approaches than I do, too. But it's not like a bank shot-level skill.

I could care less about the flag in the hole. I'm aiming at the hole. Does anyone of this make sense? I can understand the traditionalist viewpoint. We are just ready to move on.

Best wishes.

16 hours ago, billchao said:

I voted no. Always thought the traditionalists would have a fit about it.

I don't care either way. I'm putting with the stick in if they let me.

I find it interesting that the traditionalists seem to vote yes, they think it will stay, not because they approve, but because they feel like a minority. Those who voted no because they think it will not stay but really want it to stay, feel like a minority. Neither side feels they have enough influence to change a result they don't like. 

So who has the power in golf? Are the traditionalists losing power?

Sorry, but I find this fascinating in a Spock sort of way.

  • Upvote 1

Wayne

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2 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

Ah, yes, agree with that. However, given the laziness inherent in all of us, give it time. In time, leaving it in will be normalized. In time, you might be hearing "You can take it out?" more often than "Leave it in or out?" on the apron.

I don't think so. I think that if people think - as they do right now, incorrectly the vast majority of the time - that taking the flagstick out will help their score, they'll take it out.

And many will do it out of habit.

2 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

I see hitting the flag at anything other than pretty dead on is a random event.

It's not.

2 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

As a poker player, I accept random events over which no one can gain an advantage. Everyone has the same luck. I believe thinking leaving the pin in gives an advantage is engaging in too much belief in the power of dumb luck. It's like a superstition more than a fact.

No, it's pretty much a fact backed by physics.

2 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

Anyone who can use the pin to their advantage probably hits better approaches than I do, too. But it's not like a bank shot-level skill.

You're off in the weeds on this one @Blackjack Don.

I will note that the flagstick offers a higher advantage to better players simply because they're more likely to hit the ball within an area that the ball could hit the flagstick. If you're a poor golfer chunking your chip shots 10' short and 5' left of the flag, you're less likely to get to use the physics of the flagstick to help you than a player who scares the hole on most of his greenside shots.

The same relative advantage is true in putting, too. A better putter will hit the hole more often from 40' than a high handicapper.

The actual math gets muddy beyond that, simply because from say 10' a good putter rarely hits the ball 4-6' past the hole, while a poorer putter might do that more often, and thus may make some putts they don't "deserve" to make with the flagstick in while the good putter never really gets to avail themselves of the physics from 10' because their distance control is good.

2 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

I could [sic] care less about the flag in the hole. I'm aiming at the hole. Does anyone of this make sense? I can understand the traditionalist viewpoint. We are just ready to move on.

That doesn't make any sense. The flagstick is in the hole. In fact, it's in the "bullseye" of the hole, right in the middle.

Neither of my two reasons have anything to do with "tradition" or a failure to "move on.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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