Julie Inkster says LPGA not given due credit....

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Remember the US OPEN at Oakmont (IIRC).

Pinehurst is the more direct comparison. Though the differences at courses like Oakmont matter too.

1 hour ago, Hardspoon said:

To a large extent it's unavoidable, given the nature of golf tournaments (you can't exactly have them in primetime on a weekday)...but I'd certainly watch more women's golf if it wasn't a choice between PGA vs. LPGA.

Yeah. They still have to care about the local fans too, many of whom come out on Saturday/Sunday.

[ghalfaire]

21 hours ago, Vinsk said:

This may have occurred, or may occur occasionally ...but I believe the stats say otherwise. Also, it's not just shorter tees that the LPGA plays with. They play slower greens as they cannot produce the trajectory or spin the men do to hold the super fast greens the men can. Remember the US OPEN at Oakmont (IIRC). They not only played shorter tees but the ground crew cut the rough and watered the greens prior to the LPGA playing. Spieth is no bomber yet I'd say he's doing pretty well which goes against your last comment. The arguably greatest female golfer ever played a course where distance wasn't a major factor and she got her ass handed to her.

Spieth is no bomber.  Spieth certainly is a bomber compared to individuals I mentioned. 

Not to prolong this as i am not trying to say the LPGA can compete with the PGA from the same tees.  I think what I said was if you take the distance out of the equation, the LPGA can compete with the PGA.  That isn't what happened with Annika at Colonial.  But I did calculate the average score of the top 10 in two tours and it looks like this; Average score for the PGA top 10 scoring players was 69.414 and for the LPGA 69.525.  Not a lot of difference.

[Vinsk]

6 hours ago, ghalfaire said:

Spieth is no bomber.  Spieth certainly is a bomber compared to individuals I mentioned. 

Not to prolong this as i am not trying to say the LPGA can compete with the PGA from the same tees.  I think what I said was if you take the distance out of the equation, the LPGA can compete with the PGA.  That isn't what happened with Annika at Colonial.  But I did calculate the average score of the top 10 in two tours and it looks like this; Average score for the PGA top 10 scoring players was 69.414 and for the LPGA 69.525.  Not a lot of difference.

Right. And the women are playing shorter, easier courses. And they are given DUE credit. Not sure what your point is. 

[David in FL]

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Right. And the women are playing shorter, easier courses. And they are given DUE credit. Not sure what your point is. 

Hell, if you take enough distance out of the equation, I can compete with the PGA Tour players!  

[ghalfaire]

14 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Right. And the women are playing shorter, easier courses. And they are given DUE credit. Not sure what your point is. 

Looks like you got the point.  They are skilled golfers and play on shorter courses as they lack the strength to strike the ball like the men do.  My only other point was that the current length of courses set up for PGA play eliminates some skilled golfers like the ones I mentioned.  It is very difficult, if not impossible,  for a  short hitter, male of female, to compete on 7000+ yard set ups.

4 hours ago, David in FL said:

Hell, if you take enough distance out of the equation, I can compete with the PGA Tour players!  

Surely you don't really believe that.

[NJpatbee]

I watched much of the Solheim Cup and will occasionally watch other LPGA tournaments, especially majors.  They have a good product as long as you judge it for what it is - the best female golfers in world.  I have never been to an LPGA event and wanted to go to the Women's US Open here in NJ, but could get no one interested.   Last year I went to the PGA Championship at Baltusrol in the rain and it was packed and everyone I asked accepted.   The LPGA just does not have a big following in the US, and quite frankly Julie should be thrilled that the Women's US Open winner received over $800,000 - a big step up.  The ladies are fun to watch and a hack like myself can learn a lot from their swings, but they cannot compete head to head with the PGA Tour in viewership and revenue, and subsequently, purse amounts.

[David in FL]

2 hours ago, ghalfaire said:

 

Surely you don't really believe that.

Of course I do.  Granted, it would have to be a really big adjustment!  

[wakefield724]

Women sports don't sell in general so I don't think golf companies nor the PGA would benefit from pushing it. I'm not sure that statistics but more men play golf so it doesn't benefit from pushing women gear and women play as much as men. Plus no one gets excited watching professional athletes hit a ball 250 yards. 

[allenc]

Quote

no one gets excited watching professional athletes hit a ball 250 yards

Why does everyone keep saying that all thread long?  When I watch golf the only way I know how far they hit it is because the announcer or the graphics tells me.  Women's and men golf on T.V. are exactly the same as far as I can tell.  Someone makes a nice swing, you see a shot of the ball in the sky against the clouds, then you see it land somewhere.  Then there is a commercial and after that they repeat the above, when applicable.

Maybe women don't quite have as many difficult short game and recovery shots, if it is true that their courses are set up more relatively easy.  Those are kind of fun to watch.  But you don't really "watch" distance at all.  In fact, much of the time I watch women's golf I think to myself, "Wow, what a swing, she crushed that!  Awesome!"  Partly I guess because my inner sexist doesn't expect them to be able to do that.

[Vinsk]

40 minutes ago, allenc said:

Why does everyone keep saying that all thread long?  When I watch golf the only way I know how far they hit it is because the announcer or the graphics tells me.  Women's and men golf on T.V. are exactly the same as far as I can tell.  Someone makes a nice swing, you see a shot of the ball in the sky against the clouds, then you see it land somewhere.  Then there is a commercial and after that they repeat the above, when applicable.

Maybe women don't quite have as many difficult short game and recovery shots, if it is true that their courses are set up more relatively easy.  Those are kind of fun to watch.  But you don't really "watch" distance at all.  In fact, much of the time I watch women's golf I think to myself, "Wow, what a swing, she crushed that!  Awesome!"  Partly I guess because my inner sexist doesn't expect them to be able to do that.

Did you watch DJ's drive on the 18th hole in the playoff with Jordan Spieth? Enough said with that.

[allenc]

Just now, Vinsk said:

Did you watch DJ's drive on the 18th hole in the playoff with Jordan Spieth? Enough said with that.

Yes that was awesome.  At first I wasn't sure if he didn't make a terrible choke pull since I hadn't seen anyone else go that way.  Again however, I had no idea how far he had to hit it to carry the water if they didn't tell me on TV.  I might be more impressed about the lengths of players' drives if I were there in person.

Also, if Lexi or someone suddenly took a line that nobody else attempted and carried the hazard to win it all it would have been equally exciting.

[Vinsk]

32 minutes ago, allenc said:

if Lexi or someone suddenly took a line that nobody else attempted and carried the hazard to win it all it would have been equally exciting.

I watch LPGA quite often. Good competition is entertaining for sure. I guess the wow factor just isn't there for me with the LPGA. You're right regarding the Lexi case, but unfortunately that's a seldom occurrence on the LPGA. Par 5's are almost always done in 3 to the green, or the second shot has minimal risks other than just coming up short. What takes the air from the tires for me is there are so many shots done on the PGA that only a handful of golfers could make. And there are many, many if not most shots that golfers not on a tour could make. (Distance especially) Whereas almost every shot you see on the LPGA could be done by many scratch, +2, +3 hcp men...and with less club. I just can't get amazed watching a pro golfer hit a 7i 130-140yds. I respect how good they are and give them DUE credit. 

Edited August 30, 2017 by Vinsk

[Valleygolfer]

28 minutes ago, allenc said:

Yes that was awesome.  At first I wasn't sure if he didn't make a terrible choke pull since I hadn't seen anyone else go that way.  Again however, I had no idea how far he had to hit it to carry the water if they didn't tell me on TV.  I might be more impressed about the lengths of players' drives if I were there in person.

Which is why there are a lot of patrons at men's tournaments and why sponsors, sponsor men. Plus men buy stuff based on performance of other men, not women. I would go out on a limb and say that 90% or more of the people that watch golf are men. Has nothing to with sexism. Has to do with value of entertainment. The announcers do tell use what they are doing but they can only embellish so much before they get in trouble. Enough of the power gets translated to TV that I can tell the difference so the PGA is better but I like watching the LPGA too, just not going out of my way to do so.

[allenc]

57 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I watch LPGA quite often. Good competition is entertaining for sure. I guess the wow factor just isn't there for me with the LPGA. You're right regarding the Lexi case, but unfortunately that's a seldom occurrence on the LPGA. Par 5's are almost always done in 3 to the green, or the second shot has minimal risks other than just coming up short. What takes the air from the tires for me is there are so many shots done on the PGA that only a handful of golfers could make. And there are many, many if not most shots that golfers not on a tour could make. (Distance especially) Whereas almost every shot you see on the LPGA could be done by many scratch, +2, +3 hcp men...and with less club. I just can't get amazed watching a pro golfer hit a 7i 130-140yds. I respect how good they are and give them DUE credit. 

Absolutely I agree, men are much better than women.  And you want to be amazed, maybe lots of viewers feel the same and that's why the LPGA isn't as popular.  Personally, I'm amazed by the women for that very reason.  Men in general are so much better at golf and sports yet these ladies can beat all but the very best men in the world.

40 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

Which is why there are a lot of patrons at men's tournaments and why sponsors, sponsor men. Plus men buy stuff based on performance of other men, not women. I would go out on a limb and say that 90% or more of the people that watch golf are men. Has nothing to with sexism. Has to do with value of entertainment. The announcers do tell use what they are doing but they can only embellish so much before they get in trouble. Enough of the power gets translated to TV that I can tell the difference so the PGA is better but I like watching the LPGA too, just not going out of my way to do so.

Yeah, side by side you can tell a PGA tour player is much more powerful than an LPGA tour player.  Same in all sports.  You watch Serena and you're like "damn, she can play."  But then the men come on and their serves are like cannon blasts.

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, allenc said:

Yes that was awesome.  At first I wasn't sure if he didn't make a terrible choke pull since I hadn't seen anyone else go that way.  Again however, I had no idea how far he had to hit it to carry the water if they didn't tell me on TV.  I might be more impressed about the lengths of players' drives if I were there in person.

Also, if Lexi or someone suddenly took a line that nobody else attempted and carried the hazard to win it all it would have been equally exciting.

Not if the carry was 230 yards...

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

Not if the carry was 230 yards...

Bingo.

[MSchott]

6 hours ago, wakefield724 said:

Women sports don't sell in general so I don't think golf companies nor the PGA would benefit from pushing it. I'm not sure that statistics but more men play golf so it doesn't benefit from pushing women gear and women play as much as men. Plus no one gets excited watching professional athletes hit a ball 250 yards. 

I don't watch golf to see how far they can drive the ball but obviously all other being equal a longer driver has an advantage. But I watch golf to see people hit good shots on good courses. The women do this quite a lot. They are better than I ever was or could be by a gigantic margin. That works for me.

5 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Did you watch DJ's drive on the 18th hole in the playoff with Jordan Spieth? Enough said with that.

He wouldn't have even been there had be not parred from the rough on that hole in regulation. That was more impressive than the winning birdie.

[Vinsk]

6 minutes ago, MSchott said:

He wouldn't have even been there had be not parred from the rough on that hole in regulation. That was more impressive than the winning birdie.

Well not for me. A 17' par putt isn't as awesome to watch as 341yd drive cutting a corner over water in a play off. But that's just me.