Is Golf More Mental or Physical?

[GolfLug]

8 minutes ago, bones75 said:

"mental game" is often a scapegoat for poor ability, I totally agree. I know a guy that blames not getting enough sleep... it's just weird. And it is possible my friends are all chokers, but as I said before, we miss more $100 2-footers than casual 2-footers.  And I'm confident that the same applies to swings not just putts.

Yeah, life is better once blame is assigned to a root cause. Verity of root cause is not that important if nobody (ESPECIALLY oneself) is calling it out. Defense mechanism 101. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by GolfLug

[jsgolfer]

5 minutes ago, Patch said:

I voted mental. With out the mental side's input,  the physical side does not have a clue on what to do. 

Uh, No.  Jedi-Mind tricks don't help you swing a club.  Either you do or you do not, there is no hoping you hit the ball in the direction you intend.

[bones75]

Just ask IK Kim what part of her game is she was working on, physical or mental, after she missed that 1-footer. If  it just cost you a major and $300k, you're gonna think it's damn important.

Edited September 26, 2017 by bones75

[Lihu]

Here's a website that's dedicated to the "mental" game.

https://golfstateofmind.com/5-top-tips-to-improve-your-mental-game-in-2013/

Items 1,3,5 are all physical things like swing, setup and practice.

Items 2 and 4 are basically:

2) Hit balls as if you were playing the course (Physical)

4) Don't lose your temper. (Obvious)

Basically, how we defined "mental" in this thread the article ended up with only one actual "mental" fix: "Don't lose your temper."

Everything else is a physical fix.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Lihu

[jsgolfer]

Just now, Lihu said:

Here's a website that's dedicated to the "mental" game.

https://golfstateofmind.com/5-top-tips-to-improve-your-mental-game-in-2013/

Items 1,3,5 are all physical things like swing, setup and practice.

Items 2 and 4 are basically:

2) Hit balls as if you were playing the course (Physical)

4) Don't lose your temper. (Obvious)

Basically, how we defined "mental" in this article ended up with only one actual "mental" fix: "Don't lose your temper."

Everything else is a physical fix.

Yes most definitely physical.  I think too often golfers think that making the proper decision is a mental decision, instead of a plan for attacking the course, based on the physical skills you have.   

 

11 minutes ago, bones75 said:

Just ask IK Kim what part of her game is she was working on, physical or mental, after she missed that 1-footer. If  it just cost you a major and $300k, you're gonna think it's damn important.

I'm sure she thinks it was mental, but she would be incorrect.  If you watch the putt, she actually pushed the putt right off the bat.  Never gets it online, putter head open slightly to the right, just poor execution, one that most attribute to loss of concentration, instead poor mechanics.  

[Lihu]

52 minutes ago, dzclarkcpa said:

Upon reflection, I guess the better answer to the poll is that physical. A better physical player will nearly always beat a less skilled player. But with 2 players of nearly equal ability, I think the stronger mental player would win more often if they played often. So when I say mental being more important, I am thinking about my game. For me, I am physically what I am, so for ME, its more important now to focus on mental game.

See, there you have it, someone changed an opinion based on reading a forum!

Agreed, if you have a bunch of golfing buddies of nearly the same ability at an 8 HC level, then I can see mental game being an issue. Especially when you start playing mind games with each other. I think I mentioned in another thread that if you suck, the only way to win is to make everyone else suck worse.

So, to everyone on the "mental" side of things, if by that you mean learning the ROG perfectly just so you can almost break them in an annoying manner to your playing partners, fellow competitors or opponents, then I'd agree that the mental game is very important. Uhg, what a horrible way to win, though. . .

[mcanadiens]

4 hours ago, Lihu said:

You're not the only basket case. Lower your expectations to your actual performance and you won't be unhappy with anything you do on the course.

Part of the problem is that actual performance can vary a lot. I've had too many rounds in the 80s to be able to laugh off a 103.

Really though, the end result isn't always necessarily the cause. I could be angry or anxious for all kinds of reasons that may or may not have anything to do with golf. Sometimes they show up on the first tee before I've even had a chance to mishit one. Of course, stuff does tend to snowball from there.

The few times I can actually delude myself into a peaceful state, the golf is been rather remarkable for my standards. I guess it gets into chicken or the egg territory to some degree.

Edited September 26, 2017 by mcanadiens

[bones75]

6 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

I'm sure she thinks it was mental, but she would be incorrect.  If you watch the putt, she actually pushed the putt right off the bat.  Never gets it online, putter head open slightly to the right, just poor execution, one that most attribute to loss of concentration, instead poor mechanics.  

Now we go to level 2 of semantics. So are you suggesting her lesson learned was she needs to focus more on her 1-foot putting stroke? building better muscle memory / changing her putting stroke? I feel confident she qualifies that putt as nerves, and those nerves made her execute poorly.

Edited September 26, 2017 by bones75

[Lihu]

Just now, mcanadiens said:

Part of the problem is that actual performance can vary a lot. I've had too many rounds in the 80s to be able to laugh off a 103.

Really though, the end result isn't always necessarily the cause. I could be angry or anxious for all kinds of reasons that may or may not have nothing to do with golf. Sometimes they show up on the first tee before I've even had a chance to mishit one. Of course, stuff does tend to snowball from there.

The few times I can actually delude myself into a peaceful state, the golf is been rather remarkable for my standards. I guess it gets into chicken or the egg territory to some degree.

Bad scores will always happen no matter who you are. . .ask the pros if they minded blowing up a round? I'm sure they're not happy, but it happens.

[iacas]

35 minutes ago, bones75 said:

But when I read "mental game", I’m thinking about keeping your judgement and swing in tact when you need it the most (often under pressure).  It is this mental game that I certainly see applying to 1-4 strokes in a round... like the small difference in hitting 13 vs 12 fairways… so in that way I can side with @iacas that it’s a “sliver” of a difference.

It is. The mental game provides a sliver of an edge. The physical game is 99% the reason a PGA Tour pro is a PGA Tour pro. Swap in the worst mental game in the world and, guess what, he's not going to become a 12-handicapper.

The mental game is a tiny sliver.

When everyone is virtually equal, a tiny sliver is important if you can own it and someone else does not. But in the grand scheme of things, it's still just a sliver.

35 minutes ago, bones75 said:

In that respect, I can't fully discount the mental game at large.

Nobody here has said it doesn't matter at all, ever.

"Is golf more mental or physical?" is the question posed. It's more physical, BY FAR. To say anything else is stupid.

33 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I would say 99% physical, for everyone. Even the pros, who aren't the most introspective lot, instinctively know this. How much of their practice time is spent practicing the mental game? I would guess close to zero. Sure, they may have a sports psychologist, but the truth is that they spend almost all their time physically practicing shots that they will need on the golf course.

BINGO!

If you think PGA Tour pros are going to pass up an advantage that they know about, when millions of dollars and fame are at stake, you're nuts.

They spend their time in the areas that they think matter. They spend very little time working on their mental game.

33 minutes ago, chspeed said:

1. Are always angry on the golf course because you think you are better than you really are. This takes away the enjoyment for others stuck playing with you, and probably isn't helping you physically execute anything.

2. Are waiting for the green to clear on a 450 yd par 4 after hitting a 150 yd. slice drive into the rough. This takes the enjoyment away for everyone behind you. You're not that good (see #1).

Yep.

If you're an outlier, work on your mental game.

Seriously, the mental game is easy, unless you're just the type of person who lacks willpower or something.

• Don't get too high or too low.
• Give each shot the importance it deserves, and no more or less.
• Have realistic expectations.
• Let past shots go and focus on the next one only.
• Figure out how your body deals with pressure and what you can do to encourage or discourage it.
• Swing confidently at conservative targets.

That's almost all there is to it. Now with the money I saved you buying Bob Rotella books, you can buy a Supporter membership here.

32 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

I'll have to disagree.  It sorts itself out as you practice.  Just like the mechanics also do the same.  The pros in almost every sport pay a lot for mental coaching.  I suspect they realize what they need

They don't pay much - or spend much time - doing it. A very, very, very small part of their time and money is spent on the mental game.

20 minutes ago, Patch said:

I voted mental. With out the mental side's input,  the physical side does not have a clue on what to do. 

18 minutes ago, bones75 said:

How often does a round boil down to the last few holes?

The strokes you take on the first hole count the same as the strokes you take on the last hole.

18 minutes ago, bones75 said:

So even though a good mental game may lower your index by 0.05, it may increase your winnings by 1000%.

You wouldn't be at that index without the physical skills that got you there.

PGA Tour players don't convert into 12 handicappers with the worst mental game ever. They can kick your ass on the course giving you a stroke every other hole while drunk and high. Just ask Dustin Johnson or John Daly.

15 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Yeah, life is better once blame is assigned to a root cause. Verity of root cause is not that important if nobody (ESPECIALLY oneself) is calling it out. Defense mechanism 101. 

Yep. People like to blame the mental game because it seems like so much less work, too. It's a convenient excuse, and since the thoughts are in your head, nobody really wants to argue with you and point out that, no, you're shooting 100 not because of your mental game, but because your swing sucks.

8 minutes ago, bones75 said:

Just ask IK Kim what part of her game is she was working on, physical or mental, after she missed that 1-footer. If  it just cost you a major and $300k, you're gonna think it's damn important.

You don't have to ask her. She gave interviews. She downplayed the effect it had on her as saying it was pretty big for a short while, but that when she looked back at her season she was pleased with the progress she had made.

Quote

"She's got to do some good things to have that heal."

But Kim said that isn't the case.

"Last year was a big turning point in my life for learning," said Kim, who has 11 top-10s in majors. "I learned what really is important.

" … It was not the end of the world. You have to live for today and I have so many people supporting me. I can't control what people think, or ask, but I can control what I think and my attitude.

" … I feel like my game is getting better. There is always room to improve. But my game feels like it is getting better. I'm excited about the week."

And guess what? She didn't seek out mental game help.

Instead, she kept working on her golf swing. Her short game. Her putting. Her physical skills.

I love when examples actually work against the point you were trying to make.

[dzclarkcpa]

How about approaching this from a slightly different perspective, can a pool mental game offset or lesson the effectiveness of a very good golfer? At the tour level, how much of the difference between #1 and $500 on the official world rankings would you attribute to being mentally better vs physically? 

Several here have played with elite level golfers who for one reason or another can't make it. Is the difference at that level mental?

[bones75]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

And guess what? She didn't seek out mental game help.

Instead, she kept working on her golf swing. Her short game. Her putting. Her physical skills.

I love when examples actually work against the point you were trying to make.

Is this level 3 semantics already?  I don't (and haven't?) disagree w/ a single thing you wrote!

Mental won't get you there, and won't even put you in contention so you have the option to have a mental lapse. But you are implying that people don't miss by what we many of us call "nerves", and that those misses are often on the most important of shots to you. You stated the Bobby Jones quote ("... played on 5 1/2 inch course) doesn't have to be correct even if it's famous.  But it's obviously famous because it resonates with golfers. 

LPGA players don't miss 1 foot putts very often. The PGA tour average listed on another TST thread is 100% make rate (w/ some rounding i'm sure).  What are the chances that one of the few times this happens directly results in a major title loss?

Sorry, but it just sounds preposterous to me that that IK Kim example exemplifies that the mental game doesn't have a material impact.  A 100% made-on-average putt cost her $300k and a major for pete's sake. I have no doubt she's thrilled w/ her game that even got her to 2nd in the large run, but I feel you're really reaching...

Edited September 26, 2017 by bones75

[BallMarker]

Often, it's difficult to separate the mental from the physical.

I think there definitely is a grey area.

Often, it's difficult to separate the mental from the physical.

I think there definitely is a large grey area.

 

When you start to lose confidence in your swing, is it mental, or is it physical.

When you're standing over a 10 feet putt for $50.00 bucks, and bragging rights,  against 3 of your buddies, is it mental or physical?

When you're on the first tee of your club championship and you're nervous as hell, is it mental or physical.

 

I say it's both....but little more towards the mental side.

[BallMarker]

34 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

I'm sure she thinks it was mental, but she would be incorrect.  If you watch the putt, she actually pushed the putt right off the bat.  Never gets it online, putter head open slightly to the right, just poor execution, one that most attribute to loss of concentration, instead poor mechanics.  

 

But, what made her do what she did?....she probably talked herself out of what she normally would do.

I bet she can make that same putt 100 time in a row when there is no pressure.

But, with her first major title on the line, and hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's different.........mentally.

.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know that she is incorrect at what she feels?

[jsgolfer]

30 minutes ago, bones75 said:

Now we go to level 2 of semantics. So are you suggesting her lesson learned was she needs to focus more on her 1-foot putting stroke? building better muscle memory / changing her putting stroke? I feel confident she qualifies that putt as nerves, and those nerves made her execute poorly.

It was just a poor stroke, no more no less.  She probably won't ever miss another one, who knows.  She's made tons throughout her career, why would her nerves bother her on that one putt in that one tournament.  Why didn't her nerves bother her on the other 71 holes?  Nervousness, along with mental failure is just an easy excuse, but as @iacas mentioned she didn't say that it was her nerves.

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, dzclarkcpa said:

How about approaching this from a slightly different perspective, can a pool mental game offset or lesson the effectiveness of a very good golfer? At the tour level, how much of the difference between #1 and $500 on the official world rankings would you attribute to being mentally better vs physically?

Virtually none.

16 minutes ago, bones75 said:

Is this level 3 semantics already?

Nope.

16 minutes ago, bones75 said:

But you are implying that people don't miss by what we many of us call "nerves", and that those misses are often on the most important of shots to you.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the question posed is "more mental or physical" and it's not even close: it's physical. The mental is a small tiny portion of it.

Your own IK Kim example worked against you.

16 minutes ago, bones75 said:

You stated the Bobby Jones quote ("... played on 5 1/2 inch course) doesn't have to be correct even if it's famous.  But it's obviously famous because it resonates with golfers.

So, I also said, did "drive for show, putt for dough." Didn't make it accurate.

16 minutes ago, bones75 said:

LPGA players don't miss 1 foot putts very often. The PGA tour average listed on another TST thread is 100% make rate (w/ some rounding i'm sure).  What are the chances that one of the few times this happens directly results in a major title loss?

You continue to rely on an example that works against you. She had a freakish thing happen to her. It wasn't a mental issue. And her physical skills are why she was contending for a major to begin with. You're poorly weighting things. Take away her mental game and… she wins by one instead of going into a playoff. Take away her physical game, and she's a 20-handicapper.

Ergo, physical game matters way, way, way, way more.

16 minutes ago, bones75 said:

Sorry, but it just sounds preposterous to me that that IK Kim example exemplifies that the mental game doesn't have a material impact. A 100% made-on-average putt cost her $300k and a major for pete's sake. I have no doubt she's thrilled w/ her game that even got her to 2nd in the large run, but I feel you're really reaching...

She didn't spend time working on her mental game after that. She chalked it up to a freak occurrence, perhaps a brain fart, and moved on.

She didn't revert to a 20 handicapper.

The physical game was/is still 99% of what makes her the golfer she was/is. Even during that tournament.

13 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

When you're standing over a 10 feet putt for $50.00 bucks, and bragging rights,  against 3 of your buddies, is it mental or physical?

PGA Tour pros don't even make that putt half the time.

1 minute ago, jsgolfer said:

Nervousness, along with mental failure is just an easy excuse, but as @iacas mentioned she didn't say that it was her nerves.

Everyone's gone for a tap-in and missed. I watched Aaron Baddeley miss a six-inch putt… for double bogey in the first round of the Memorial once. It wasn't his nerves. He just stubbed his putter in the ground.

[jsgolfer]

Just now, BallMarker said:

 

But, what made her do what she did?....she probably talked herself out of what she normally would do.

I bet she can make that same putt 100 time in a row when there is no pressure.

But, with her first major title on the line, and hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's different.........mentally.

.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know that she is incorrect at what she feels?

She didn't say she felt nervous on that putt, as far as I can tell from her interviews.

"I played straight, and it actually just broke to the right, even that short putt,'' Kim said. ``So it was unfortunate on 18, but ... I feel good about my game. It's getting better.''

 

[BallMarker]

8 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

...why would her nerves bother her on that one putt in that one tournament.  Why didn't her nerves bother her on the other 71 holes?  Nervousness, along with mental failure is just an easy excuse, but as @iacas mentioned she didn't say that it was her nerves.

 

Maybe because it was for her first major WIN and a "large" sum of money.......

Why do skilled performer get nervous going out on stage at the met?

5 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

She didn't say she felt nervous on that putt, as far as I can tell from her interviews.

"I played straight, and it actually just broke to the right, even that short putt,'' Kim said. ``So it was unfortunate on 18, but ... I feel good about my game. It's getting better.''

 

The mind is a strange thing. It makes you do things, and sometimes you don't even know it.

It was probably just all a blur to her at the time.

Edited September 26, 2017 by BallMarker