Is Golf More Mental or Physical?

[Lihu]

6 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

Why do skilled performer get nervous going out on stage at the met?

They wouldn't even be at the MET without their physical skills to perform.

Performance anxiety is always an issue with performers in general. You're right that golfers are no different in that regard. They have cameras that allow the viewers to count arm hairs on the players. So, there is definitely a lot of pressure. However, I doubt that a professional golfer would miss a short putt like that because she was nervous. I'm guessing she was prematurely getting into her victory leap but ended up missing or something like that.

[BallMarker]

51 minutes ago, iacas said:

They spend very little time working on their mental game....

 

I think they spend more time on it than we/you think. They just don't admit it. Also, it's something you would do where people can see you.

Maybe they meditate, or even do Yoga.........etc.....

[jsgolfer]

Just now, BallMarker said:

 

Maybe because it was for her first major WIN and a "large" sum of money.......

Why do skilled performer get nervous going out on stage at the met?

Most of us aren't saying the mental game never applies, it's just not that as important at the end of the day compared to your physical ability.  Again, what the OP asked was, "Is golf more mental or physical?"

And one bad putt by IK Kim or a missed 2-footer by Scott Hoch at the Masters or a three putt by DJ in the US Open or some random missed shot at any tournament, doesn't mean that the mental game wins.  Everyone hits bad shots, even pros.  

[GolfLug]

19 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

 

But, what made her do what she did?....she probably talked herself out of what she normally would do.

A brain fart at worst. If you think a solid mental game is about NEVER having an occasional brain fart, then well.... good luck.

19 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

I bet she can make that same putt 100 time in a row when there is no pressure.

 I bet she can make that same putt 100 times in a row when there is greater pressure. 

Again, outliers don't speak to a larger picture. 

 

[BallMarker]

1 hour ago, jsgolfer said:

...instead of a plan for attacking the course, based on the physical skills you have 

I always thought "planning" was processed in your head.

[jsgolfer]

Just now, BallMarker said:

I always thought "planning" was processed in your head.

A plan is a means for achieving an end.  You may have the plan in your head, but hopefully its based on what you can actually do, not what you think you can do.  

[BallMarker]

11 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I'm guessing she was prematurely getting into her victory leap but ended up missing or something like that.

 

Even if you're right about your statement above. What made her do that?

Obvious answer is. HER MIND.

[bones75]

28 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

She didn't say she felt nervous on that putt, as far as I can tell from her interviews.

"I played straight, and it actually just broke to the right, even that short putt,'' Kim said. ``So it was unfortunate on 18, but ... I feel good about my game. It's getting better.''

 

I get what she said in post interviews, I would the same. But this is a 1 foot putt! 100% make rate statistically for the PGA. From 2 feet the PGA is still 199 out of 200 made, and that includes putts that break. I will concede it's fair, but I feel terribly misleading, to call this miss due to lack of physical ability to make that putt, no matter what one would describe it afterwards.

 

12 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

A brain fart at worst. If you think a solid mental game is about NEVER having an occasional brain fart, then well.... good luck.

I just know some of my friends consistently people brain fart more than others... and it costs them dollar bills.

28 minutes ago, iacas said:

So, I also said, did "drive for show, putt for dough." Didn't make it accurate.

If enough golfers know what Jones is talking about, I'd say his quote is accurate too.  (noting the Jones' quote is not meant to be taken literally)

28 minutes ago, iacas said:

She didn't spend time working on her mental game after that. She chalked it up to a freak occurrence, perhaps a brain fart, and moved on.

She didn't revert to a 20 handicapper.

I echo the !  I'm just tired of agreeing with you and telling you the mental game can have a material impact (a $300k "sliver" as it may be sometimes), and not just answering the specific question in the OP (which I believe the original poster has changed to something different from what either of us are answering anyways ).

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by bones75

[BallMarker]

1 minute ago, jsgolfer said:

A plan is a means for achieving an end.  You may have the plan in your head, but hopefully its based on what you can actually do, not what you think you can do.  

Top pros have similar physical abilities.

Who has the best chance to win on any given week?

[iacas]

30 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

Why do skilled performer get nervous going out on stage at the met?

Because they care, and they're human.

They don't suddenly turn into beginners.

The mental game is a tiny, teeny aspect of it.

[BallMarker]

Just now, iacas said:

Because they care, and they're human.

They don't suddenly turn into beginners.

The mental game is a tiny, teeny aspect of it.

It is a tiny aspect of it.

But, it is highly concentrated....  

[iacas]

32 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

She didn't say she felt nervous on that putt, as far as I can tell from her interviews.

"I played straight, and it actually just broke to the right, even that short putt,'' Kim said. ``So it was unfortunate on 18, but ... I feel good about my game. It's getting better.''

There you go, no nerves at all.

18 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

I think they spend more time on it than we/you think. They just don't admit it. Also, it's something you would do where people can see you.

I know how much time they spend on it. It ain't much. I've coached and worked with players on the PGA Tour, European Tour, LPGA Tour… high-level college players.

@mvmac can ask Xander how much time he spends on his full swing vs. his mental game. Guess what: in the 65/20/15 ratio… we included the mental game. It just rounded down to zero is all.

5 minutes ago, bones75 said:

I just know some of my friends consistently people brain fart more than others... and it costs them dollar bills.

You're missing the bigger picture. A poor mental game does not turn a PGA or LPGA Tour player into a 20 handicapper.

The mental game is a tiny portion of the overall performance. And you apparently play with schmucks.

9 minutes ago, bones75 said:

If enough golfers know what Jones is talking about, I'd say his quote is accurate too.  (noting the Jones' quote is not meant to be taken literally)

Oh, we just get to declare things now as truth? Let me try… "His quote is not at all accurate. Not literally, not figuratively, not in any way."

9 minutes ago, bones75 said:

I echo the !  I'm just tired of agreeing with you and telling you the mental game can have a material impact (a $300k "sliver" as it may be sometimes), and not just answering the specific question in the OP (which I believe the original poster has changed to something different from what either of us are answering anyways ).

I have never said that the mental game can't have any impact ever.

And @bones75, you're not agreeing with me at all, so please stop saying you are.

2 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

Top pros have similar physical abilities.

Who has the best chance to win on any given week?

The one who performs physically better.

On the PGA Tour, the hottest putter out of the best ballstrikers that week.

This is a really bad point you're trying to make. Your premise is wrong. They have different physical abilities.

[klineka]

28 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

Top pros have similar physical abilities.

Who has the best chance to win on any given week?

Dustin Johnson has different physical abilities than Jordan Spieth does, none more evident than the playoff at the Northern Trust. That week, Dustin Johnson, the person with the better physical ability, won, and the reason why he won was because he was physically superior to Spieth with his drive on the playoff hole.

No, top pros dont have similar physical abilities. 

There is over a 40 yard difference between the shortest driving average (271) and the longest driving average (317) on the PGA tour this year. Pros dont have similar physical abilities.

Edited September 26, 2017 by klineka

[bones75]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

There you go, no nerves at all.

Because when an athlete describes what went wrong in a post round interview, it's always 100% accurate.

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

The mental game is a tiny portion of the overall performance. And you apparently play with schmucks.

1. I do play w/ schmucks (myself included).
2. One of us chokes pretty consistently (one of the schmuckier schmucks we have), and for 10 years he does fine in our $2 nassaus and but only loses $$ in all our "big" games. Even when he's been playing well that year (index down), we play net, so he still loses, and even he admits he just gets the nerves. I'm glad he can be comforted knowing that mental games is a tiny portion of his overall performance. 

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

Oh, we just get to declare things now as truth? Let me try… "His quote is not at all accurate. Not literally, not figuratively, not in any way."

Gump says "life is like a box of chocolates". I'm allergic to chocolate so this is just wrong, literally, figuratively and in every way.

(That was a whole lot of sarcasm.  My mom would kill me if she saw me posting like this.  I do mean it in the most fun way possible)

[iacas]

Just now, bones75 said:

Because when an athlete describes what went wrong in a post round interview, it's always 100% accurate.

Occam's Razor, man.

2 minutes ago, bones75 said:

2. One of us chokes pretty consistently (one of the schmuckier schmucks we have), and for 10 years he does fine in our $2 nassaus and but only loses $$ in all our "big" games. Even when he's been playing well that year (index down), we play net, so he still loses, and even he admits he just gets the nerves. I'm glad he can be comforted knowing that mental games is a tiny portion of his overall performance.

Cool.

I've made the same point to you now many times, but this is the last:

• Your buddy doesn't turn into a beginner when he feels nerves.
• Even if he loses a few more strokes to nerves, he's the exception, not the rule. He has a glaring weakness, and his inability or unwillingness to fix or improve it hints toward a larger mental deficit.

At the highest level, yes, the results of one or two shots can be affected by nerves, but even that is just a sliver of their overall ability to put up a score for 72 holes on a PGA Tour level course.

A sliver.

[BallMarker]

3 minutes ago, klineka said:

Dustin Johnson has different physical abilities than Jordan Spieth does, none more evident than the playoff at the Northern Trust. That week, Dustin Johnson, the person with the better physical ability, won, and the reason why he won was because he was physically superior to Spieth.

Thats only one example, but yeah, the guys with the top physical abilities overall do better than the guys that have lower physical abilities. 

If that were true, Dustin Johnson would win all the time.

Physical ability between Dustin Johnson and Jordan Spieth isn't all the much different...meaning that Spieth hits it far enough to compete against anyone..

I would throw in that the person who is mentally sharp for that week, has a better chance of winning.

25 minutes ago, iacas said:

The one who performs physically better.

On the PGA Tour, the hottest putter out of the best ballstrikers that week.

This is a really bad point you're trying to make. Your premise is wrong. They have different physical abilities.

 

Right. And one putts better if one's mind isn't cluttered with JUNK!

You're mind is one dimensional..and you're making a bad point and your premise is wrong...... 

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

If that were true, Dustin Johnson would win all the time.

No. Sometimes Jordan Spieth is physically superior. Or John Rahm. Or whomever.

If you think one player has a better mental game, then someone could just as easily say to you "if that were true, that player would win all the time."

11 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

Physical ability between Dustin Johnson and Jordan Spieth isn't all the much different...meaning that Spieth hits it far enough to compete against anyone..

That's true. But what separates them each week is small differences in that physical ability.

11 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

I would throw in that the person who is mentally sharp for that week, has a better chance of winning.

A very, very small amount, sure.

11 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

Right. And one putts better if one's mind isn't cluttered with JUNK!

Oh brother.

I'm a good putter. I can out-putt a beginner whether I'm hyper focused on the putt or whether I'm thinking about what deductions I may have missed on my taxes or what I'm going to eat for dinner or whatever.

The mental game is a tiny portion of what determines your score. More so for some than others, but still, way, way, way the **** under 50%.

[Lihu]

50 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

Even if you're right about your statement above. What made her do that?

Obvious answer is. HER MIND.

LOL, yes.

Yes, I agree that it was her mind that did it, but I doubt it was a "mental" issue as we defined it. She probably wasn't apprehensive.