Shorter driver question

[ThumbtackR9]

I know this subject has been discussed many times on the forum and there are many different opinions.  I have several drivers of different lengths and I prefer the shorter driver.  None of them have been re swingweighted.  I am a senior golfer with a 81 mph swing speed with driver.  As far a length goes it seems about 43 1/2 feels the best.  I have a Callaway x2 driver that is 43 inches long and I really like the length. I added some tape to the head but I know the swing weight is still off.   This is my question.  I have a Titleist 917 d2 driver with a Diamana 60 gram shaft in regular flex.  It measures 44 1/2".  I want to go to 43 1/4".  If I cut the 1 1/4" off and go to a 25 gram grip would the swing weight be close.  I have read that a heavier shaft would help but I had rather not change the shaft.  Any opinions appreciated.  Thanks

[p1n9183]

I have the titleist 915 d2 aldila rogue 70 44 1/2". I like shorter shaft so i grip down as far as i can. Don´t have to cut it down and works beautifully. I guess from the bottom of the grips it´s now a 42 1/2". Better accurracy and almost always hitting it on the sweet spot. Less than 5 yards lost on carry distance.  

Just grip it down!

[Lihu]

@1badbadger and @WUTiger, any thoughts?

[Hacker James]

while gripping down to shorten effective shaft length is acceptable and can yield good results in terms of more control, you also need to be mindful of the effect of the excess grip above the fulcrum (wrists) acts as a counter-weight. For some this will have no ill effects, others it may come into play. 

[WUTiger]

If possible, start with a side-by-side launch monitor test of the X2 and D2 drivers and see which one gives you the best numbers.  Doing a lot of trimming without baseline data is a hit-and-miss approach to solving your problem.

4 hours ago, ThumbtackR9 said:

  I have a Titleist 917 d2 driver with a Diamana 60 gram shaft in regular flex.  It measures 44 1/2".  I want to go to 43 1/4".  If I cut the 1 1/4" off and go to a 25 gram grip would the swing weight be close.

Next, do a decal impact test. Put an impact decal on the face of the D2 driver, hit 10 shots, and see what the impact pattern looks like. If the pattern is scattered all over the face, you could benefit from a shorter shaft. If there's a pattern, it may indicate a swing flaw.

As far as trimming the shaft goes, you would lost about 7 swingweight points if you cut 1 1/4". If your current grip is 50 grams, and you go down to 25 grams, you could recapture about 5 swingweights.

Also, a 60-gram shaft is on the line between light and heavy shafts for drivers. Given you have 81 MPH clubhead speed, a lighter shaft might improve the speed. And, what loft is the driver? Persons with slower swing speeds often benefit from more loft on their drivers.

58 minutes ago, Hacker James said:

while gripping down to shorten effective shaft length is acceptable and can yield good results in terms of more control, you also need to be mindful of the effect of the excess grip above the fulcrum (wrists) acts as a counter-weight. For some this will have no ill effects, others it may come into play. 

Ah, yes... counterbalancing and backweighting. Some clubsmiths and pros love it, others hate it. If the decal impact test shows you're all over the driver face for impact points, you could try out gripping down as a first step. If it works, it's less hassle than trimming and regripping.

Edited September 26, 2017 by WUTiger
Add launch monitor suggestion.

[ThumbtackR9]

Thanks for the replies.  I've have tried gripping down and it just doesn't work for me.  I prefer to hold the top of the club.

If I can cut 1 1/4" off and use the 25 gram grip and get to within two swing weights I'll just add a couple of grams of lead tape to the head and that should put me close.  I probably wont' know the difference anyhow.  That's kind of what I wanted to know.

I have the driver set to 10.5 with a slight draw.  I had it set to 11.5 but couldn't really tell any difference.  I don't tee my ball up real high.  Usually about centerline of ball to top of driver.  I use impact tape sometime to see where I am hitting.  Usually a little toward the toe and a little high.  I just feel like I have better control with the shorter club.  I may go with the 1 1/4".  Thanks all.

[saevel25]

19 hours ago, ThumbtackR9 said:

This is my question.  I have a Titleist 917 d2 driver with a Diamana 60 gram shaft in regular flex.  It measures 44 1/2".  I want to go to 43 1/4".  If I cut the 1 1/4" off and go to a 25 gram grip would the swing weight be close.  I have read that a heavier shaft would help but I had rather not change the shaft.  Any opinions appreciated.  Thanks

Swing weight is only a small part of this. Really swing weight is outdated.

You can cut the club down an inch, and add all the right weight, but it still might not feel the same. The primary reason is the golf shaft doesn't bend linearly. It depends on how the golf shaft is designed. The golf shaft is designed to be trimmed down up to 1-1.5 inches to allow the golf shaft to be installed in something like a 9-wood.

 

[ThumbtackR9]

Savel25.  What do you mean swingweight is outdated. I want to ask everyone this question.  If I have a 44 1/2 inch driver at swingweight DO and it has a certain feel then I cut it off the 1 1/4 inch and I do what ever I have to to get it back to DO will it feel the same.  If it is off two or three swing weights could I tell the difference anyway.  If I make a good swing and hit it in the sweet spot will it make any difference in what the ball does?  Does the swingweight just help me get the club back to the center of the sweet spot?  Thanks for the information and still looking for more.

[saevel25]

32 minutes ago, ThumbtackR9 said:

Savel25.  What do you mean swingweight is outdated.

Irons will still be designed to have the same swing weight. This makes the feel pretty consistent. Some custom club makers will talk about MOI matching. For the most par,t swing weight is good enough when talking about consistent feel between irons.

It doesn't fit well when you talk about modifying a driver. I did this before, I cut down a driver shaft to 43.5" from 44.5". I added lead weight. The club didn't feel the same. The static measurement of swing weigh was the same, but dynamically it didn't feel the same. That doesn't mean you ruin the club. You could get use to it, but it will not be what it was.

37 minutes ago, ThumbtackR9 said:

If I have a 44 1/2 inch driver at swingweight DO and it has a certain feel then I cut it off the 1 1/4 inch and I do what ever I have to to get it back to DO will it feel the same.

In the swing, probably not. Maybe if you took off like 1/4 or maybe 1/2 an inch. Even if you get back to D0, that doesn't mean the club feels the same when you swing the club.

41 minutes ago, ThumbtackR9 said:

If it is off two or three swing weights could I tell the difference anyway. 

Depends. You might be feeling more that the club is shorter. If you were given a club that was D3 versus a D0, and they were the same length, you might not be able to tell the difference.

I am not a fan of using static measurements to try to describe a feel that happens dynamically.

42 minutes ago, ThumbtackR9 said:

Does the swingweight just help me get the club back to the center of the sweet spot? 

It depends. I wouldn't say there is a strong correlation. Some people might benefit from a lighter weight club. Some might benefit from a heavier club. Some benefit from a certain bend profile. Shaft makers are moving towards this. If you go to their online shaft selection, they ask question like, "What is your tempo like". They are asking, how hard do you apply a force onto the club.

Someone like Ernie Els might have the same swing speed as another golfer, but he might benefit from a completely different golf shaft. Those golf shafts might produce a club with the exact same swing weight.

It's a lot more complex than just a single static measurement.

Again, that isn't to say you are ruining the club or you might not benefit from a shorter driver. The driver shaft is meant to be cut down for the 3-wood to 9-wood's. Cutting down your driver shaft by 1.25 inches moves it down into the 3-5 wood range. Those clubs tend to also tend to be a heavier golf shaft to begin with, and the head of the club is about 10-20 grams heavier.

[Hacker James]

It is not all just hype that club makers like Tom Wishon maintain there are at least twelve elements of a proper fitting. The science behind bend profile, kick point, e.t.c. provides a great deal of variability as pertaining to a particular golfer's swing. I am not all that familiar with MOI fitting, but that seems to becoming more popular among club makers.

[arturo28mx]

Titleist drivers have removable weights. Take advantage of that. Factory Standard is red. If you need more swingweight you can install a blue weight to add one swingweight or a black weight to add two and a half swingweights.

Most Titleist drivers are D3 swingweight. I am 60 years old and I have found I really like a D0 or C9 swingweight.

[1badbadger]

On 9/26/2017 at 11:01 AM, ThumbtackR9 said:

I know this subject has been discussed many times on the forum and there are many different opinions.  I have several drivers of different lengths and I prefer the shorter driver.  None of them have been re swingweighted.  I am a senior golfer with a 81 mph swing speed with driver.  As far a length goes it seems about 43 1/2 feels the best.  I have a Callaway x2 driver that is 43 inches long and I really like the length. I added some tape to the head but I know the swing weight is still off.   This is my question.  I have a Titleist 917 d2 driver with a Diamana 60 gram shaft in regular flex.  It measures 44 1/2".  I want to go to 43 1/4".  If I cut the 1 1/4" off and go to a 25 gram grip would the swing weight be close.  I have read that a heavier shaft would help but I had rather not change the shaft.  Any opinions appreciated.  Thanks

Cutting the driver down 1 1/4" will decrease the swingweight by 7-8 points.  5g of weight in the grip end of the club is about 1 swingweight.  If the original grip is std weight (around 52g), moving to a 25g grip would add about 5-5 1/2 swingweight points, so it won't quite get it back to where it started.    

[pgone]

Attaboy BB1.... Your just about there...Here is an older guy..with a swing speed around 80...if you add 12 grams to the head, you recover the original swingweight, but the tip end flexes for a 3 wood.Now if you drop the grip weight to 26 grams..with no added weight to the head...the total club weight ( static) drops almost 1 ounce. So your Titleist that started at  52/60/195 = 307g is now 25/60/195 = 280g... D-2 is a little heavy on the  r flex..Now you have a shorter club..lighter club and the swingweight is on target...Good Luck

[ThumbtackR9]

Well I cut it off 1 1/4" off and put a golf pride 25 gram grip on and added 6 grams of tape to the head.  I ordered me a swingweight scale so I can tell what it is.  I like the feel of the shorter shaft.  Going to play a round Monday.  Did put some impact tape on and it in the net.  Had a pretty good pattern.  I'll post after the round.

[MrFreeze]

On 9/26/2017 at 9:01 AM, ThumbtackR9 said:

I know this subject has been discussed many times on the forum and there are many different opinions.  I have several drivers of different lengths and I prefer the shorter driver.  None of them have been re swingweighted.  I am a senior golfer with a 81 mph swing speed with driver.  As far a length goes it seems about 43 1/2 feels the best.  I have a Callaway x2 driver that is 43 inches long and I really like the length. I added some tape to the head but I know the swing weight is still off.   This is my question.  I have a Titleist 917 d2 driver with a Diamana 60 gram shaft in regular flex.  It measures 44 1/2".  I want to go to 43 1/4".  If I cut the 1 1/4" off and go to a 25 gram grip would the swing weight be close.  I have read that a heavier shaft would help but I had rather not change the shaft.  Any opinions appreciated.  Thanks

I have the 917D2. It measured 45" with the head on it. It is a regular flex with the Diamana Blueboard 70 (I think) shaft in it.
I cut 1" off of it and everything straightened out and has gone long. After cutting it (the pro shop did it) I, at the recommendation of the Titleist fitter, put in the 14gram weight. That counteracted, so I am told, the weight that I cut off of the shaft.
Went from hitting "spray drives" to mostly down the center. hit 251 and 274 yd drives yesterday.

[1badbadger]

I have posted this before, and I'll say it again...I'm a huge believer that shorter shafted drivers will help most players not only hit the ball straighter, but longer too.  In my experience, when a guy doesn't get good results from shortening his driver, it's because he didn't bring the swingweight back up and as a result he couldn't sense the head during his swing which affects a player's timing and tempo.

Remember...subtracting .5" in length will decrease the swingweight by about 3 points.  1" will decrease it about 6 points.  This will turn a driver that weighs D2 into a C6, which is very noticeable.  I'm not saying it's necessary to get the swingweight back to exactly what it was before cutting it down, but some weight needs to be added. Drivers that have adjustable weight screws make this easier (a 2g increase in the head of the club = 1 swingweight point).  Reducing the weight of the grip can help also (a 5g change in the grip end of the club = 1 swingweight point).  When clubs get below D0 or C9, that's pretty light, so if you can bump it up to at least that, it will help.

[onthehunt526]

I'm actually toying with going to a 43.5" Driver! And I'm 6'5"!

I've talked to a few clubsmiths, and they stated that most of the issues of accuracy with the driver, is the "Driver shaft length creep". Even tall people don't need a 45-46" driver. 

So you'll probably find more consistency with a shorter driver. @ThumbtackR9 but before you make the plunge... Try choking down first to see how it's gonna feel and or react. What I've found, is when I choke way down, I sometimes hit some low hooks. When I choke down a fair bit, I do hit it relatively straight, and still about the same distance.

[JonMA1]

I wish there were fitters available in this area as knowledgable as some of the members here. 

I brought my 915D2 in to be shortened at the same shop I purchased it from. The guy who was helping asked me how much he should cut off. I told him I didn't know what was best and was hoping an expert could make a suggestion - basically the reason I went to them. I told him I grip down already so he had me show him how far.

He cut 1 1/2" off and said nothing about adding any weight back.

This is the same shop where I purchased an iron set a few years back. That fitting was a joke when compared to what Mizuno shows on their website.

I go into these places and pay a bit more for equipment in hopes the professionals can do more than ask me what I want or send me home with off-the-shelf clubs. How the $#% can I possibly know what's best! I tell them I need their help... that they're the experts. I get almost nothing. Was hoping the new owner would be different but it doesn't look like that's the case.

I don't know, maybe they see a guy like me come in and they figure why bother.

It's fine, live and learn. In the end, it's only golf and properly fitted equipment can only do so much when a poor swing is the bigger issue. I just hope I never become that indifferent towards my profession.

Edited October 14, 2017 by JonMA1