2017 Presidents Cup Thread

[Chris223]

15 hours ago, MrGolfguy67 said:

So, thru the first 3 days of play the USA was only 1 point shy of the points needed to win the Cup. What if that one match had gone to the USA, giving them enough points to claim the cup? Would they just cancel the Sunday singles matches?

They would still play, as they continue playing the remaining matches once its clinched on Sunday as well.

[Groucho Valentine]

I popped in for a few hours on saturday and i was really hoping the US cashed in on all four afternoon matches so they could technically win it. That would have brought serious lulz. 

It was sort of a weird vibe on the grounds. It didn't seem like anyone cared what was going on. But I guess the outcome was already decided by saturday afternoon. The ass whooping the US put on the internationals probably put emphasis on it, but this exhibition is dead. The organizers have to reformat it in some way. But getting a bunch of bold faced names in the same place for a week and charging folks $100 a day (with all the sponsor and television cheese that goes with it) may be too irresistible to change. 

Edited October 2, 2017 by Groucho Valentine

[iacas]

22 hours ago, dchoye said:

A rule is a rule. 

But doesn't change the outcome of the hole. Rules needs to be update and amended to keep the game fair to the players. 

It's fair, because the same rule exists for all players.

And though we "know" that the ball wasn't going to change direction and go in the hole, we don't always know that, and you can't write a rule that says "if most people kinda think the ball was done rolling…".

It's very simple: don't touch an opponent's ball that's still moving. That's already a very good rule.

One that didn't change in the proposed 2019 rules, either.

 

Quote

 

A player gets the general penalty if he or she deliberately deflects or stops any ball in motion after a stroke.

This is true whether it is the player’s own ball or a ball played by an opponent or any other player in the competition.

 

 

[skydog]

2 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

 But getting a bunch of bold faced names in the same place for a week and charging folks $100 a day (with all the sponsor and television cheese that goes with it) may be too irresistible to change. 

Yep as bad as the competition is and will likely continue to be, the tour won't change much about the event as long as it's generating the kind of $$ they want.

As for Spieth, his heart was in the right place- he stopped the ball because the crowd was yelling for it to keep going but not much you can do about a rule that's on the books. The internationals tried to concede the next hole they felt so bad about the situation.

[DeadMan]

Just for a comparison, the Ryder Cup thread from last year was 40 pages long. This competition doesn't move the needle, even for golf fanatics like us. The Ryder Cup was closer, obviously, but the final scores were similar (19-11 for this, 17-11 for the Ryder Cup).

[Groucho Valentine]

23 minutes ago, skydog said:

Yep as bad as the competition is and will likely continue to be, the tour won't change much about the event as long as it's generating the kind of $$ they want.

As for Spieth, his heart was in the right place- he stopped the ball because the crowd was yelling for it to keep going but not much you can do about a rule that's on the books. The internationals tried to concede the next hole they felt so bad about the situation.

Im sure if the event pulls some really abysmal ratings a couple cycles in a row, they're might be some sponsor pressure to change. The Spieth thing was weird. Im sure I've done that in competition when i guy was out of the hole and nobody has said anything. 

[rehmwa]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

It's fair, because the same rule exists for all players.

And though we "know" that the ball wasn't going to change direction and go in the hole, we don't always know that, and you can't write a rule that says "if most people kinda think the ball was done rolling…".

It's very simple: don't touch an opponent's ball that's still moving. That's already a very good rule.

One that didn't change in the proposed 2019 rules, either.

Agree it's fair as everyone has the same rules.  that's always the case.

 

(I doubt this or analogous situations even occur enough to even matter, so I'm just spit balling for discussion sake)

Another way around it is that penalties in match play would be revised to be only called by the other player/team.  If an official (or a fan, or a TV viewer, etc etc etc) sees an infraction he asks the other team if they want to call it or ignore it. 

In another thread it came up explicitly that in match play if a player sees his opponent break a rule, he can claim he doesn't have an obligation to speak up since he's not protecting field other than himself.  Therefore can choose to call a penalty or not at his discretion.

Of course, with him being directly informed prior to the next hole, he currently can't pretend to ignore it.  So a change to allow it would be needed.  though, frankly, if choosing to ignore a penalty on the sly, IMO, isn't much of a stretch then from just making it official.

 

 

Aside - I've enjoyed the President's cup.  match play, even unbalanced teams, still seems to bring out some really great streaks in individual's play.  Really impressed with Louis and Brooks and Justin and Ricky, etc etc depending on the day

Edited October 2, 2017 by rehmwa

[Mr. Desmond]

I'm confused about the singles play because it makes the game look very mental - Spieth losing to Vegas? Are cats and dogs sleeping with one another?

[rehmwa]

Just now, Mr. Desmond said:

I'm confused about the singles play because it makes the game look very mental

is it physically mental?  or just 1% 'very mental'.

I'm having a hard time keeping track

[Mr. Desmond]

4 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

is it physically mental?  or just 1% 'very mental'.

I'm having a hard time keeping track

It all depends on the facts and circumstances, focus, and the energy level.  

[iacas]

6 hours ago, rehmwa said:

(I doubt this or analogous situations even occur enough to even matter, so I'm just spit balling for discussion sake)

Another way around it is that penalties in match play would be revised to be only called by the other player/team.  If an official (or a fan, or a TV viewer, etc etc etc) sees an infraction he asks the other team if they want to call it or ignore it. 

There's a reason a referee is required to step in from time to time, and that is a very clearly defined role.

Basically, you can't have players playing "not golf."

[Buckeyebowman]

10 hours ago, DeadMan said:

Just for a comparison, the Ryder Cup thread from last year was 40 pages long. This competition doesn't move the needle, even for golf fanatics like us. The Ryder Cup was closer, obviously, but the final scores were similar (19-11 for this, 17-11 for the Ryder Cup).

I think Adam Scott made some valid points about this. The U.S. plays in this type of event every year, the internationals do not. Maybe the internationals need to organize an event of this type among themselves in Ryder Cup years. Plus, it didn't hurt that the U.S, team was a juggernaut!

And yes, Spieth screwed up. It doesn't matter what the fans are yelling. True, it would not have altered the other team's score, Day was already in with a birdie. Just let the ball roll out. The player who hit it will pick it up and put it in his pocket. No need for you to pick it up and put it in his pocket for him!

[hillis11]

Yes the rule is there for a specific reason or it wouldn't be in the rule book but I do not think the rule was in place for what Spieth did. There should be some common sense in these ruling or have it where the other side can cancel out the ruling by not accepting it kind of like in football. I know there are purist out there saying this is golf and rules are rules. But as time changes so does the rules. 

 

I thought this was just the perfect storm for the US side with the talent they had this year. The International did not play up well either. I do not know how to make it more competitive but until the International best plays up to it then they will be in trouble for few more years to come. I heard one theory on how to make it competitive but it would be a different tournament than the President Cup would be to add the LPGA and have a co-event. Where the US men and women play together as a team vs the International team. That way you would have the women of Korea to even it out the sides. 

[skydog]

19 hours ago, rehmwa said:

Another way around it is that penalties in match play would be revised to be only called by the other player/team.  If an official (or a fan, or a TV viewer, etc etc etc) sees an infraction he asks the other team if they want to call it or ignore it. 

This could create some complications/unintended consequences but it makes enough sense to me that I would be for it.

Realistically though, the rule is going to stay as is.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, hillis11 said:

There should be some common sense in these ruling or have it where the other side can cancel out the ruling by not accepting it kind of like in football.

No. As I mentioned above, some of the rules are in place to give assurance to the Committee that the players are playing golf. That's why you're DQed for agreeing to waive a rule, which they'd basically be doing if they agreed to waive this one.

The referee is compelled to act in only a few instances, and this is one of them. They are compelled to act to protect the Committee's interests that everyone is playing golf, and thus, to protect the field.

2 hours ago, hillis11 said:

I know there are purist out there saying this is golf and rules are rules. But as time changes so does the rules. 

Why is this always used as a counter-argument? It's a straw man. Nobody ever says that.

The people you say are "rules are rules" people often give an explanation, often richer than the one I gave above, when they explain why the current rule IS the rule. That's different than "the rules are the rules." That's "here's why the rules are the rules." Very, very different.

And, as I also noted above… this rule is the same in the 2019 proposed rules, which underwent a massive change.

[hillis11]

35 minutes ago, iacas said:

Why is this always used as a counter-argument? It's a straw man. Nobody ever says that.

True. What I should had said was, there are a lot of rules in golf and there are some with multiple ruling under one rule. So why couldn't they put in the rules where if match play or team play is happening and Player A hit is ball and done with the hole, with the ball having no chance of making it in the cup, then you could pick up a moving ball with no penalty. I'm sure there is a better way to reword this to make it sound more professional. 

[iacas]

Just now, hillis11 said:

True. What I should had said was, there are a lot of rules in golf and there are some with multiple ruling under one rule. So why couldn't they put in the rules where if match play or team play is happening and Player A hit is ball and done with the hole, with the ball having no chance of making it in the cup, then you could pick up a moving ball with no penalty. I'm sure there is a better way to reword this to make it sound more professional. 

Because then what do you do when players argue over what "no chance" is?

Better - and much, much simpler - to just say "don't deflect or stop a ball in motion."

The "wording" is completely professional.

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Because then what do you do when players argue over what "no chance" is?

Being that it's match play, could they not just allow a rule like that to be administered only by the opponent?  (Along the lines of how concessions work)  The rule wouldn't have to change, which means that there wouldn't be any arguments over "no chance."  That way if I skull my chip shot past the hole and it's heading into the pond, I can be appreciative if my opponent saves that ball for me.