New-ish vids from Grant Waite, Trackman Maestro, Sasho MacKenzie

[Jack Watson]

@Mr. Desmond

I have no quarrel specifically with that.  It's kinematics.  These guys teach a certain geometry will improve ones skill and sure,  there's that possibility.

More modern research in athletics motor control has interesting findings though.  Like kinematic variation has little influence on outcome.

 

[Mr. Desmond]

On 11/1/2017 at 3:32 PM, mvmac said:

Take it to the top of the backswing. Start the downswing (lead hip staying lower as you rotate, which also gets the weight forward) but leave the arms and hands in the same position they were at A4, or close to it, the lead arm will load against the chest, the trail shoulder scap will depress, the shallowing motion typically takes care of itself if you do that. Then the arms can fire down with the pivot. Should feel a good amount of stretching going on with the transition move.

This is what I ended up doing without the GG Squat. I tried the GG squat for about a month - did the range basket between the legs - took it to the course and it was ... let's say that some of his instruction may not work for me. I do like some of his instruction - setup that is not so bent over but more upright with rounded back,  take club back with butt pointing more inside the line, arms high, maintaining width in downswing, relaxed arms take care of shallowing, feeling the stretch and using ground forces. But I like the Grant Waite transition  (lead hip goes low on downswing before up) and release. And basically, the above is what my instructor is doing with me and I am paying him. So exit the squat.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Mr. Desmond

[Mr. Desmond]

To add to the above, I think Gankas misrepresents the hip slide/rotation or takes shots at it. From memory, I saw him representing it as the lead hip going vertically up towards the sky, which collapses the right shoulder.  But as we know from TST, the trail hip is higher than the lead at the top of the backswing, then the lead hip stays low in transition as weight is transferred and then the hips open, chest opens,  the strike occurs and continues to open past contact (similar to Gankas).

Gankas tries to make the point that a mere lift of the lead hip prevents opening the hips - and he's right if it's only a hip lift. BUT that is not what is happening with the slight hip slide/turn - the lead hip is low and opening and then goes high (it eventually gets high in the Gankas stock shot). I think the weight transfer is easier in this hip slide/rotate manner. In the GG rotation squat - the left hip is low and then everything is horizontal - all the weight is on the trail leg until P6 - shaft is parallel on downswing - and then the push off the trail foot takes place  and then the hips/belt goes skyward -- that's tough for some people - like me.  Different strokes. Like anything else, use the patterns that work for you.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Mr. Desmond

[Jack Watson]

Wanna injure yourself?  Do this.  

 

[Mr. Desmond]

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

Wanna injure yourself?  Do this.  

 

He  just lifts up the lead hip and lowers the trail hip causing a crashing. Joe does a misrepresentation of the hip slide that is advocated on TST, which is  lead hip goes down, rotates, and then up. Joe is doing the GG move with the squat but doesn't say much about the trail leg. Basically, both legs go "external" a bit for separation during transition, and the weight transfer is delayed. I can't delay it because I probably delay it enough - not the most athletic guy around. But Joe does a good job of the squat without mentioning GG.

What he does not talk about above is the address position is more upright, less knee bend, weight on balls of feet, rounded back at address, and during the backswing the belt level may rise and the trail leg extends. With a more upright position on the backswing, the reasoning is that it's easier to "squat" or get the butt "out" on the downswing preventing early extension.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Mr. Desmond

[billchao]

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

Wanna injure yourself?  Do this.  

 

Please, elaborate.

[Mr. Desmond]

^^^

Thinking about it, I may be doing most of what Joe is talking about. I just can't think about a delay in the weight shift. From the inside of the trail foot's heel, I am pushing to the front part of the lead toe, to the heel and then the outside of the lead foot, the lead hip goes down, opens, chest open and hips and chest opens more while lead hip is going up and around - the belt is pointing to the sky.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Mr. Desmond

[Jack Watson]

To elaborate principle 1.  Safe spine is neutral spine.

Not good to twist or bend under load.

Compression forces plus twisting forces on discs spine very bad.

From dtl view safer golfers have a belt line closer to parallel to call it a shoulder line.

The squat and jump up with two legs while twisting is the worst thing.

Leads to more right side bend with steep shoulders and adds totally unnecessary compressive force through the back.

Plus Maestro is wrong about squat jump.  What he is seeing is a result of weight left and left leg extending not weight hanginback right jumping up and spine crushing.  Watch almost all the best swings weight is left right knee is flexed and kinda along for the ride.

The golf swing is never gonna be perfect on the back it's just you try to minimize spinal contortion/compression forces.

I believe in safety first and I have to at my age.  

 

 

 

 

 

This is a long iron from a long way out and back is in a good position for what I mean.  Left leg has the weight right is just hangin out.

[Jack Watson]

Here's what almost twenty minutes of what amounts to swing to right field...

In many people who are really bad the clubface is absolutely the problem.  IMO telling someone who swings way left that the clubface is square simply because it's pointing at the target at impact and not to worry about the face is bad advice.  If the clubface were square to the path the ball would be a straight pull.

I brought back a guy to golf who was a hellacious slicer.  Telling him to swing to right field created a ball that started way right and sliced further because he really truly did not have a feel for the clubface at all.  No matter which way he would swing he was dragging the heel of his left hand hard through impact really really bad.  I am not saying what Mayo says is not true it's just that you don't need to take this much time to explain swing to right field is the way you prefer to correct slicers.

Imo he's a slick talkin snake oil salesman.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Imo he's a slick talkin snake oil salesman.

Thanks for sharing.</sarcasm>

I think the fact that you dislike Joe has been pretty obvious.

And… I've fixed a lot of slicers by immediately going after the path, not the clubface.

[Hacker James]

Joe Mayo gets a bad rap from some.  He is a pretty good instructor, but at the same time he is a great "mimicker" and takes what he observes and repackages it as it is his own. He does this very successfully and is able to market it well. From what I have read, he took up golf late in life, was barely able to break 90 just a few years ago himself. I also believe he worked with Martin Chuck for a spell or at least they knew each other. These are just a few of the things I have read. I have never met the man. 

As for club face. Alignment at address rarely is the same at impact. i also agree that going after the path is the right path.

[mvmac]

5 hours ago, Hacker James said:

From what I have read, he took up golf late in life, was barely able to break 90 just a few years ago himself.

Spoiler

It's incorrect, Joe has been playing or involved in golf most of his life. He got in a serious car accident several years ago and hurt his back to the point where swinging a club is extremely painful. Here's his swing. I've seen him hit it in person and he can hit it solid and demonstrate draws, fade, etc.

 

 

 

 

[Hacker James]

47 minutes ago, mvmac said:

  Reveal hidden contents

It's incorrect, Joe has been playing or involved in golf most of his life. He got in a serious car accident several years ago and hurt his back to the point where swinging a club is extremely painful. Here's his swing. I've seen him hit it in person and he can hit it solid and demonstrate draws, fade, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

I am sure you are right and that might have also been one of the reasons in what I had read (albeit not included or taken out of context).  I do also recall Martin defending Joe on occasion. 

[nevets88]

1 hour ago, mvmac said:

  Reveal hidden contents

It's incorrect, Joe has been playing or involved in golf most of his life. He got in a serious car accident several years ago and hurt his back to the point where swinging a club is extremely painful. Here's his swing. I've seen him hit it in person and he can hit it solid and demonstrate draws, fade, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

I read the not breaking 90 bit in Golfwrx. That place can be so full of disinformation.