Effects of Altitude and Humidity

[Marty2019]

I was playing in Western North Carolina last week, and I noticed an increase in my distances.  My usual good drive (throwing out all the crappy drives) is around 220-230, with an occasional 250-260, if the fairway is hard and flat, etc, but in North Carolina I was cranking out 250 yard drives.  I even mis-hit one off the toe that went 250.  I had one tee shot on a par 5 where there was a lake 230 yards away, and you have to lay up on your tee shot, so I pull out my 210 yard club, which is a 5-wood, choke up a little, take an easy swing, and I nail it right into the middle of the lake!   (Never felt so good about losing a golf ball. What a shot.)

The altitude of the course I was playing in North Carolina was only about 2,000 feet.  But the humidity is always low.  So, altitude 2,000 feet, humidity 50%, vs altitude 0 feet, humidity 90%, and my shots were going much farther in North Carolina than they go down here in Florida. 

Anyone else have this experience? 

[dennyjones]

Humidity: The difference is almost negligible. According to Trackman’s data, a change from 10% to 90% humidity will account for less than a yard of difference on a 6-iron. 

From Titletist:

• The golf ball flies further in high altitudes mainly due to the change in air density, which decreases as elevation increases. Thinner air exerts less drag force on the ball. The ball moves more easily through the air and doesn't slow down as quickly as it flies, resulting in greater distance.
• The force of gravity also decreases the further we move away from the earth's center, but the change in force is too small to have any significant effect on the ball.
• You can calculate the distance gain you will experience (compared to sea level) by multiplying the elevation (in feet) by .00116. For example, if you're playing in Reno, at 1 mile elevation (5,280 ft.) the increase is about 6% (5,280 x .00116 = 6.1248). If you normally drive the ball 250 yards at sea level, you will likely drive it 265 yards in Reno.
• The golf ball does not spin any less at high elevation. However, because the air is less dense and imparts less force on the ball, the lift force is also lower. You'll see a flatter trajectory on your longer shots, a more shallow angle of descent and greater roll.
• Because the air is less dense at higher altitudes and imparts less force on the ball, the ball won't slice or hook as much. It will be harder to shape shots.
• The shorter the shot, the slower it moves through the air, and the less effect anything aerodynamic will have. So on short approaches and greenside shots, you don't have to adjust for elevation.

[David in FL]

It's also interesting to note that contrary to common belief, high humidity results in slightly less air density, not greater, as does warm air.

If you really want to hit it far, find a hot, humid day high in the mountains.  

[Patch]

Courios. If playing on a high humidity day, would the ground/grass landing areas be wetter, which would shorten the roll out after the carry? Kind of like damp greens being slower than drier ones. 

I have to confess I never worried much about weather conditions. I just adjusted to the conditions at that time. Some days I was a little longer. Somedays shorter. Past experience, and the first couple of holes told me what to expect for that round. The distance difference was not that much, except in windy conditions, and/or colder conditions, when I had more clothing on, which limited my swing. Club selection was always based on the known conditions for that shot. 

Heck there were back to back days in the same weather conditions, that my distances were different. That was due the "condition my condition was in".  Anyone remember that song?....lol

[iacas]

40 minutes ago, Patch said:

Courios. If playing on a high humidity day, would the ground/grass landing areas be wetter, which would shorten the roll out after the carry? Kind of like damp greens being slower than drier ones. 

Humidity is water as a gas, not water as a liquid.

High humidity slows evaporation (there are less places for single water molecules to evaporate: move from the liquid state to the gaseous state), so if the ground was already wet it'll take longer to dry. But no, high humidity doesn't shorten roll out because the ground is damper.

[Lihu]

10 hours ago, Marty2019 said:

I was playing in Western North Carolina last week, and I noticed an increase in my distances.  My usual good drive (throwing out all the crappy drives) is around 220-230, with an occasional 250-260, if the fairway is hard and flat, etc, but in North Carolina I was cranking out 250 yard drives.  I even mis-hit one off the toe that went 250.  I had one tee shot on a par 5 where there was a lake 230 yards away, and you have to lay up on your tee shot, so I pull out my 210 yard club, which is a 5-wood, choke up a little, take an easy swing, and I nail it right into the middle of the lake!   (Never felt so good about losing a golf ball. What a shot.)

The altitude of the course I was playing in North Carolina was only about 2,000 feet.  But the humidity is always low.  So, altitude 2,000 feet, humidity 50%, vs altitude 0 feet, humidity 90%, and my shots were going much farther in North Carolina than they go down here in Florida. 

Anyone else have this experience? 

I only hit really long drives in New Mexico and Utah, but there was so much wind that some drives were super long and some were kind of short. If I had my current driving distances, I'd likely not even use a driver downwind. The wind had more of an effect than anything else.

So, when I played in Boston and FL a few times in the summers, I was driving farther than I was at my home course which is at 500 feet above sea level because my home course is in an Arroyo where there are prevailing winds blowing in the short and narrow direction holes and the wide open ones are usually against the wind.

Keep in mind that other people in my area likely have a different experience since I play in Fall/Winter/Spring when it's a lot colder and windier. It's too hot for me to play in the summer.

[Pretzel]

Higher humidity = longer shots because water vapor displaces the denser air. Air has a molecular weight of 28.966 grams per mole, while water vapor's molecular weight is only 18.02 grams per mole. At 30* Celsius (86 Fahrenheit), air can be composed of up to 4% water vapor before it becomes saturated and water will no longer evaporate (100% relative humidity). This means that the molecular weight of air would be effectively reduced from 28.966 grams per mole to 28.52816 grams per mole, or an overall reduction in density of ~1.5% when altitude and temperature are kept constant.

Higher altitude = longer shots because the air gets thinner as the altitude increases. This will create a larger difference than humidity, in terms of the distance you drive the ball. The density of air at sea level is 12.25 Hectagrams (100g) per cubic meter. The density of air at 1000 meters (~3281 feet) is only 11.12 Hectagrams per cubic meter, and at 2000 meters (~6562 feet) it is only 10.07 Hectagrams per meter cubed. This means the air is ~9.23% less dense at 1000 meters as compared to sea level, and ~17.8% less dense at 2000 meters. As you can see, altitude has a much greater effect on the density of the atmosphere than humidity, where humidity may be seen as nearly negligible. 

One other factor that plays into things, though in a VERY minor fashion, is that the force of gravity fluctuates based upon your geographic location and your altitude. In Orlando, Florida, the downwards acceleration due to gravity is 9.79067 m/s^2 (and also slightly South-West, interestingly enough, meaning your drives would travel a minute distance further going South-West than North-East). In Asheville, North Carolina, the downwards acceleration due to gravity is actually 9.79596 m/s^2, which equates to a 0.05% increase in the force of gravity in North Carolina. Assuming your golf ball weighs the legal limit of 1.62 ounces in Orlando, your golf ball will actually weigh ~1.620875 ounces in Asheville. The weight is irrelevant in terms of the actual distance traveled (less gravity will go ever so slightly further if all other items are identical), it's just an interesting tidbit.

The best place to hit the long ball in the U.S., assuming a warm and humid day, would probably be Copper Mountain, Colorado, home to the highest elevation golf course in North America. The elevation of 3,006 meters means the air will only have a density of 9.093 Hectagrams per cubic meter, meaning the air is 25.88% less dense than sea level, and the downwards acceleration of gravity is 9.79078 m/s^2, which is nearly directly comparable to Orlando. The best place in the world is a golf course in the Indian Himalayas, Yak Golf Course with an elevation of 3,970 meters and air that weighs only 8.194 Hectagrams per cubic meter (33.22% less dense than sea level).

[NM Golf]

I won't get as technical as the previous post, but living in Albuquerque, New Mexico and playing at an elevation of 5300 feet I see a small difference in distance when I travel and play closer to sea level. I personally don't see these huge differences people describe, but I see around a half a club drop off. In Pinehurst last week I had to hit a few more smooth 7s instead of hard 8s. My driving distance was about the same, but I equate this to the fact the fairways at Pinehurst were firm and the ball was rolling out as opposed to the swampy conditions I normally play in where your ball mark is never located more than a yard from your ball. 

[NJpatbee]

I live and play golf primarily in the hills of NW Jersey which are only 1800' max.  However, every trip I have made to the coastal Carolinas to play golf I (and others with me) noticed at least 1/2 club less in distance. We always suspected that the humidity was the culprit but I have no data to back that up.

[Lihu]

26 minutes ago, NJpatbee said:

I live and play golf primarily in the hills of NW Jersey which are only 1800' max.  However, every trip I have made to the coastal Carolinas to play golf I (and others with me) noticed at least 1/2 club less in distance. We always suspected that the humidity was the culprit but I have no data to back that up.

I played in NW NJ, was not aware that it was 1800 feet above sea level. My shots went mostly the same distances as wherever else I play. Perhaps, it makes more of a difference to tour players than a run of the mill golfer?

 

1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

I won't get as technical as the previous post, but living in Albuquerque, New Mexico and playing at an elevation of 5300 feet I see a small difference in distance when I travel and play closer to sea level. I personally don't see these huge differences people describe, but I see around a half a club drop off. In Pinehurst last week I had to hit a few more smooth 7s instead of hard 8s. My driving distance was about the same, but I equate this to the fact the fairways at Pinehurst were firm and the ball was rolling out as opposed to the swampy conditions I normally play in where your ball mark is never located more than a yard from your ball. 

I didn't really notice the baseline distance as being that significant either when I played in Santa Fe and that's at 7200 feet. The wind was more of a factor where I was playing. Also, the high altitude made it marginally harder for me to swing as well as at sea level in higher humidity. I was generally more tired even after having 2 days to acclimatize.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Lihu

[WUTiger]

On 11/5/2017 at 6:24 AM, dennyjones said:

The golf ball does not spin any less at high elevation. However, because the air is less dense and imparts less force on the ball, the lift force is also lower. You'll see a flatter trajectory on your longer shots, a more shallow angle of descent and greater roll.

From 1986 to 2006, the PGA played The International at Castle Rock in Colorado. In one article on the tournament, some of the pros reported could hit their 3W on tee shots almost as far as their driver. Possibly the lower lift in the high air gave benefit to the higher-launching 3W for some players.

[NM Golf]

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I didn't really notice the baseline distance as being that significant either when I played in Santa Fe and that's at 7500+ feet. The wind was more of a factor where I was playing. Also, the high altitude made it marginally harder for me to swing as well as at sea level in higher humidity. I was generally more tired even after having 2 days to acclimatize.

What time of the year were you in NM? I have heard you talk about the wind on a couple of occasions and its not that windy in the central part of the state. I have played a bunch in Santa Fe, I don't see a difference in distance there from Albuquerque. 

I do see a tiny difference when I go on my annual trip to South Fork, CO (8,000+)

Edited November 6, 2017 by NM Golf

[NJpatbee]

1 hour ago, NJpatbee said:

I live and play golf primarily in the hills of NW Jersey which are only 1800' max.  However, every trip I have made to the coastal Carolinas to play golf I (and others with me) noticed at least 1/2 club less in distance. We always suspected that the humidity was the culprit but I have no data to back that up.

The highest point in NJ is just over 1800 feet.  Most courses are between 800' and 1200'.  We have some elevation but nothing like the Rockies or higher Appalachian ranges.   I play at the Jersey Shore every year and have not noticed any difference in club distance.  NC, SC, and GA along the coast is where there seems to some of us to be a loss of distance.

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, NM Golf said:

What time of the year were you in NM? I have heard you talk about the wind on a couple of occasions and its not that windy in the central part of the state. I have played a bunch in Santa Fe, I don't see a difference in distance there from Albuquerque. 

I do see a tiny difference when I go on my annual trip to South Fork, CO (8,000+)

I went in the winter/early spring months. We had some pretty good gusts. That kind of explains the low rates and the lack of anyone else on the course.

[NM Golf]

18 hours ago, Lihu said:

I went in the winter/early spring months. We had some pretty good gusts. That kind of explains the low rates and the lack of anyone else on the course.

Yes, you were here during the worst time of the year. Feb 1- Mid April can be nasty. Hopefully you can get back here in the fall sometime. Best weather you can ask for Late August through November. Summers are good too, just somewhat hot around 95°.

Edited November 7, 2017 by NM Golf

[Patch]

On 11/5/2017 at 6:52 AM, iacas said:

Humidity is water as a gas, not water as a liquid.

High humidity slows evaporation (there are less places for single water molecules to evaporate: move from the liquid state to the gaseous state), so if the ground was already wet it'll take longer to dry. But no, high humidity doesn't shorten roll out because the ground is damper.

Thanks for that answer. What about "dew point"? Does it have any association with humidity? We have all played with dew on the grass. Especially on greens where the ball leaves a track.