Shots Coming up Short at Mountain Course?

[baw1]

I am on vacation in the Palm Springs area and played the La Quinta Mountain course a couple of times. Most of my shots were short of their normal distance. Even clubbing up was usually not enough. So I am trying to understand if this is something to do with being right up against the mountains? This is a Pete Dye course with various raised greens, but still..

Very little wind, temperature in the 60s, sea level altitude. 

Any ideas?

[iacas]

Chicago is 600' above sea level, but that shouldn't be THAT much of a difference. Maybe you're just not hitting it as solidly off the different kinds of grasses?

[Buckeyebowman]

That could be. But, with the kinds of slope involved, it could be the Dye is employing illusions. It doesn't seem to matter whether they are natural or the result of bulldozers shoving hundred of yards of earth around, Dye can create these scenarios.

I'll offer as evidence the 10th hole at Fowler's Mill GC. To look at it on the scorecard, it's a 330ish 4 Par. Should be a birdie candidate. Make one tiny mistake, however, and you are well and truly screwed! It's a wickedly difficult hole.

[baw1]

19 minutes ago, iacas said:

Maybe you're just not hitting it as solidly off the different kinds of grasses?

My ball striking was pretty solid. Just seemed like wrong club every time. I was paired with a scratch golfer today who shot par and made the same observation. So I am inclined to believe that it’s related to the course.

[Patch]

Were you playing up hill on some the holes? I always take two extra clubs when playing up hill holes. 

If not that, all other things being equal, then perhaps as already mentioned,  it might be the type of grass you are hitting off of. 

Did you rent your clubs, or are you playing your own gamers? 

How short on yardages were you?

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Patch

[baw1]

8 minutes ago, Patch said:

Were you playing up hill on some the holes? I always take two extra clubs when playing up hill holes. 

If not that, all other things being equal, then perhaps as already mentioned,  it might be the type of grass you are hitting off of. 

Did you rent your clubs, or are you playing your own gamers? 

How short on yardages were you?

I always travel with my own clubs. I was typically short by 1-2 clubs. Many of the holes were up hill, and perhaps I needed 2 clubs up. However even on the downhill shots distance was not there. I played my normal distance on 2 downhill par-3 shots which was just about right. Normally I would club down on those. 

 

[DaveP043]

Were the distances in meters?  Did you accidentally change a setting on your device?  I've seen this just once in the US, the scorecard and yardage markers were all in meters, and only realized it after I had played 6 or 8 holes.  This was before the days of GPS and lasers. 150 meters is about 165 yards, enough to be very confusing.

[phillyk]

My course, you could say would qualify as a mountain course, and hills on these courses look smaller than they are, going up. So having to go 2 clubs more is pretty common on something you wouldnt expect to.  Usually down hill holes won’t have the same club downing effect. It would have to be a more drastic change. My best advice on the amount of club change would be to consult a regular there or see if the yardage book says anything. 

I don’t have a rule of thumb for feet uphill is this amount extra, anymore. If its a course I haven’t played before, I try to compare it to my home course. 

[baw1]

56 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Were the distances in meters?  Did you accidentally change a setting on your device?  I've seen this just once in the US, the scorecard and yardage markers were all in meters, and only realized it after I had played 6 or 8 holes.  This was before the days of GPS and lasers. 150 meters is about 165 yards, enough to be very confusing.

I use my own rangefinder for distances. It does not have slope so I adjust for that ~manually. I will double check that it did not get switched to meters. Good suggestion. My playing partner was having the same issue though (a very accomplished golfer).

I would be really curious to get feedback from anyone who played this course. And if you haven’t, I would definitely recommend it ( just club up :) ). I thought it was the most scenic (particularly back 9) of the PGA West courses that I played (stadium and Norman).

20 minutes ago, phillyk said:

My best advice on the amount of club change would be to consult a regular there or see if the yardage book says anything. 

Thanks. Yes, probably should of asked at the pro shop after the round. 

[Lihu]

19 hours ago, baw1 said:

My ball striking was pretty solid. Just seemed like wrong club every time. I was paired with a scratch golfer today who shot par and made the same observation. So I am inclined to believe that it’s related to the course.

Was it the drier air?

When I play in the East coast or humid conditions my ball flies higher and a bit longer even though I play warmer conditions at about 400’ to 800’ in California.

[baw1]

5 hours ago, Lihu said:

Was it the drier air?

Could very well be. Ball does travel further in humid air. I’ve played a lot in Las Vegas, but the altitude there adds a bunch of distance which probably makes up for any loss due to dryness.

I am now thinking that it was probably a combination of several factors ( none of which have anything to do with mountains):

- slightly cool air/temperatures 

- desert dry air

- Slope

- different grass 

thanks for everyone’s feedback!

[Piz]

Another thing to consider, if you have a lot of uphill lies, is that one minute out of level equals 6 degrees.  That, in itself, is a club and a half loft-wise.  A slightly uphill lie seems flat...but it isn't.

[WUTiger]

In a true mountain course often have a high degree of rise and fall surrounding the holes. Because of this 20 feet uphill doesn't look like as much as it would in a flatter parkland layout.

Also, make sure you use a rangefinder or a GPS. When I played in Sicily in pre-rangefinder days, I came up short on a couple of holes because the greens featured 12-foot alpine flagsticks. Because the sticks were taller than normal, I thought I was closer to the green than I was (flawed perspective).

On 12/23/2017 at 9:21 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

But, with the kinds of slope involved, it could be the Dye is employing illusions. It doesn't seem to matter whether they are natural or the result of bulldozers... 

Dye-style illusion can definitely be a problem. Dye built an early layout in my area called Tamarack CC. Although not as tricky as his modern work, he did create optical illusions at Tamarack. No. 6, a 420-yd. par 4, has a splash bunker against a raised mound fronting the right half of the green. This green looks really shallow from the landing area, but is actually 35 yards deep. I've seen newbies hit a cut shot over the bunker, only to find they have a 65-foot putt left.