How to Play Through Another Group

[JCrane]

21 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

We've been known to walk or drive around groups that have no idea of golf etiquette! I walked around a foursome of women who were taking a half an hour to play a 140 yard par 3!

As I was walking past them, one woman did bother to ask "Oh, were we holding you up?" Are you kidding me?

you should have said No I only play holes I can par or eagle LOL

 

[dnaygs]

The real problem in my opinion is that people don't think about playing quickly as a priority.  They think about what club to hit, finding their ball, reading putts, following the rules, etc.

First things first, try to play quickly, if you can accomplish that, then you're free to include some other things.  

The most important thing in golf is pace of play.  If that means just picking up, skipping holes, waiting while you let other people play, whatever you have to do to not make other people wait.  

I don't expect everyone to agree, but that's how I feel.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Years ago there was a thread in this forum about slow play, upon which this thread is based, that had a response so right and so eloquent that I copied it and quote from it to friends who think because they paid their fees they can play at any pace they like. Here it is.

---

Remember, though, that etiquette is about respecting those around you and, as I like to think about it, taking less for yourself than you might be entitled to take.  The purpose is to help everyone have a pleasant experience, and everyone does need to make an effort for it to work.  Everyone "sacrifices" a bit for the sake of the group.  For a new or unskilled player, that may mean not sticking rigorously to the rules until they can play at a decent pace.  For the speed demons, that means understanding that they'll have to wait for their shots when the course is crowded and doing so politely.  For a system like this to work, everyone has to be a bit gracious and a bit generous---take a bit less from and give a bit more to the collective good, so that when something goes wrong there's a surplus.
 
Unfortunately, this is at odds with human nature, so inevitably someone decides that their own needs are important enough that they'll take *everything* they're entitled to, dammit.  While that may improve the situation for the ones taking that hard line, the overall experience for all the players gets worse…

[Moxley]

9 hours ago, dnaygs said:

The real problem in my opinion is that people don't think about playing quickly as a priority.  They think about what club to hit, finding their ball, reading putts, following the rules, etc.

First things first, try to play quickly, if you can accomplish that, then you're free to include some other things.  

The most important thing in golf is pace of play.  If that means just picking up, skipping holes, waiting while you let other people play, whatever you have to do to not make other people wait.  

I don't expect everyone to agree, but that's how I feel.

This seems a bit back to front to me.

If you had the course to yourself, I don't think you'd get any enjoyment from playing too quickly to be able to play your best. You might play quickly in order to do something else later, but it won't enhance your enjoyment. Conversely, rushing would reduce your enjoyment. 

Now, when the course is not empty, surely the reason it's important to not play slowly is that it might spoil the enjoyment of others who have to keep waiting. I get this, and I agree that slow play is a problem. But what would be the point of most people playing too quick to find their ball, follow their rules and read their putts? wouldn't that just mean more people on the course playing bad golf, and having less fun?

 

[klineka]

10 hours ago, dnaygs said:

The real problem in my opinion is that people don't think about playing quickly as a priority.  They think about what club to hit, finding their ball, reading putts, following the rules, etc.

First things first, try to play quickly, if you can accomplish that, then you're free to include some other things.  

The most important thing in golf is pace of play.  If that means just picking up, skipping holes, waiting while you let other people play, whatever you have to do to not make other people wait.  

I don't expect everyone to agree, but that's how I feel.

You are suggesting that people shouldn't read their putts or follow the rules just so the group behind them doesnt have to wait? No. That will never become a standard and I bet you are in the very very small minority of people that feel that way.

Lets say there's a 4 some on the hole in front of me, and a very fast 4 some including yourself behind my 4 some on the same hole. So if you did pass me, theres nowhere for you to go. 

Im not going to not read my putt and not follow the rules just because youre a fast player. I will play ready golf, hit a provisional if necessary, etc.

The most important thing in golf is to have fun and enjoy the game, not see who can play their round the quickest. 

[rehmwa]

10 hours ago, dnaygs said:

I don't expect everyone to agree,

Well I find I agree with this part anyway

[TRUCKER]

I'm a member of a private country club. Takes about 3 hrs. on the low end/4.25 hrs. on the high end for 18 holes. When I do play at a public course the 2 reasons I see that slow things down are a player that won't pick up after a couple duffs and just move up to where the other players in his group are or someone will hit a 200 yard drive, have 200+ yards to the green and wait for the green to clear.

[JCrane]

3 hours ago, TRUCKER said:

I'm a member of a private country club. Takes about 3 hrs. on the low end/4.25 hrs. on the high end for 18 holes. When I do play at a public course the 2 reasons I see that slow things down are a player that won't pick up after a couple duffs and just move up to where the other players in his group are or someone will hit a 200 yard drive, have 200+ yards to the green and wait for the green to clear.

I have been guilty of the second one. I am hitting the ball pretty good that day and so I let them putt out and then hit my next ball 50 yds short,but I would bet money if I hit the ball while they were  on the green, it would have rolled up along side them. 

[rehmwa]

4 hours ago, TRUCKER said:

I'm a member of a private country club. Takes about 3 hrs. on the low end/4.25 hrs. on the high end for 18 holes. When I do play at a public course the 2 reasons I see that slow things down are a player that won't pick up after a couple duffs and just move up to where the other players in his group are or someone will hit a 200 yard drive, have 200+ yards to the green and wait for the green to clear.

I have NO issue with the 2nd example.  1st rule is don't hit into another group (annoying an impatient child behind you is always better than killing or injuring an innocent bystander in front of you).  If you wait for the green to clear, then it's simply a matter to play briskly and make it up in the next couple strokes.  If it's that incredibly tight, a temporary flux in the flow won't change the big picture.

[klineka]

4 hours ago, TRUCKER said:

I'm a member of a private country club. Takes about 3 hrs. on the low end/4.25 hrs. on the high end for 18 holes. When I do play at a public course the 2 reasons I see that slow things down are a player that won't pick up after a couple duffs and just move up to where the other players in his group are or someone will hit a 200 yard drive, have 200+ yards to the green and wait for the green to clear.

Why should the player pick up after a couple duffs? What if hes keeping a strict handicap? What if he's playing stroke play against his playing partners for money? Within reason, he shouldn't have to pick up just because he duffed two shots. 

Obviously if he's hitting his 10th shot or something and still 200 yds out from the green thats different. But something like topping a shot from 250 yds out and then hitting the next one fat, im not going to pick my ball up, I'm going to continue to play, unless it's something like match play and my opponent stuffed his approach to within a few feet so I have no chance.

I could hit a drive, duff the next two shots and still get a bogey or a double on a hole. 

 

[JonMA1]

3 hours ago, JCrane said:

I have been guilty of the second one. I am hitting the ball pretty good that day and so I let them putt out and then hit my next ball 50 yds short,but I would bet money if I hit the ball while they were  on the green, it would have rolled up along side them. 

In my opinion, you play the right way. If there's a reasonable chance I might catch one clean and hit into the group in front, I'll wait.

2 hours ago, klineka said:

I could hit a drive, duff the next two shots and still get a bogey or a double on a hole.

Agreed. While two duffs in a row is frustrating, it's not a round killer. Besides, there's little chance a group is going to keep up with me for very long even after a hole like that. If so, they've earned the right to play through.

[406pat]

7 hours ago, TRUCKER said:

I'm a member of a private country club. Takes about 3 hrs. on the low end/4.25 hrs. on the high end for 18 holes. When I do play at a public course the 2 reasons I see that slow things down are a player that won't pick up after a couple duffs and just move up to where the other players in his group are or someone will hit a 200 yard drive, have 200+ yards to the green and wait for the green to clear.

The biggest problem on most public courses is saturation and lack of player assistance on the course. Sending groups off every 8 minutes when it generally takes a group 10 -11 to play an average par 3 is asking for trouble. That's often the true cause of the holdup and the frustration builds when you see the group in front playing "slow" when really they were set up to fail. A full course will inevitably have delays, purely from variability. But a course properly managed for pace will have player assistants helping the groups who are off pace, and enforcing the rules if need be. Really, playing through should be a common thing that courses manage. I think the reason it gets contentious is that there really is no place to go on a saturated course. Gaps are a necessity to maintain the pace of play for all groups on a full course. Just because there's a gap doesn't mean there should be a group filling it and filling the wrong gap can lead to more problems than it fixes.

[JCrane]

3 hours ago, 406pat said:

The biggest problem on most public courses is saturation and lack of player assistance on the course. Sending groups off every 8 minutes when it generally takes a group 10 -11 to play an average par 3 is asking for trouble. That's often the true cause of the holdup and the frustration builds when you see the group in front playing "slow" when really they were set up to fail. A full course will inevitably have delays, purely from variability. But a course properly managed for pace will have player assistants helping the groups who are off pace, and enforcing the rules if need be. Really, playing through should be a common thing that courses manage. I think the reason it gets contentious is that there really is no place to go on a saturated course. Gaps are a necessity to maintain the pace of play for all groups on a full course. Just because there's a gap doesn't mean there should be a group filling it and filling the wrong gap can lead to more problems than it fixes.

you make some great points. I have played on courses that require carts and have field Marshalls   not only on the front tees but travel the course keeping their eye on how things are going and decide if groups need to play through. Of course those courses require reservations well in advance because they are so popular. and well managed. good post

[Piz]

I suppose one could pack along a few cherry bombs, and a slingshot, just to get the message across.  

[406pat]

12 hours ago, JCrane said:

you make some great points. I have played on courses that require carts and have field Marshalls   not only on the front tees but travel the course keeping their eye on how things are going and decide if groups need to play through. Of course those courses require reservations well in advance because they are so popular. and well managed. good post

It's really too bad because a lot courses could increase playing flow and the playing experience with legitimate tee time intervals and active course management. They hold off because, on paper, you get more players through the course with 8 minute tee times than 11. In practice, compressed tee times give you angry golfers, increasing round durations, and fewer groups completing 18 hole rounds in a day because most courses can't process a group every 8 minutes. Most course would actually make more money by having the right tee time intervals because rounds would be consistently faster and more players actually complete 18 holes. Playing through wouldn't be nearly the issue it is if folks weren't playing a freeway at rush hour every Saturday.

[JCrane]

27 minutes ago, 406pat said:

It's really too bad because a lot courses could increase playing flow and the playing experience with legitimate tee time intervals and active course management. They hold off because, on paper, you get more players through the course with 8 minute tee times than 11. In practice, compressed tee times give you angry golfers, increasing round durations, and fewer groups completing 18 hole rounds in a day because most courses can't process a group every 8 minutes. Most course would actually make more money by having the right tee time intervals because rounds would be consistently faster and more players actually complete 18 holes. Playing through wouldn't be nearly the issue it is if folks weren't playing a freeway at rush hour every Saturday.

They are probably using the government model. LOL Customer service should rate at the top to increase profits. Most golfers do not mind paying a little more to increase their enjoyment of the round. I am a bit surprised this model has not caught on, but judging from the posts many golfers are not even aware of this and continue to blame each other.

[Moxley]

14 hours ago, JCrane said:

you make some great points. I have played on courses that require carts and have field Marshalls   not only on the front tees but travel the course keeping their eye on how things are going and decide if groups need to play through. Of course those courses require reservations well in advance because they are so popular. and well managed. good post

I always thought, for a long time, that marshals/rangers were an amusing invention of the great old game 'SimGolf', that i used to love playing as a kid. Now I see they are really a thing and actually used a fair bit over there, amazing.

[Missouri Swede]

14 hours ago, Piz said:

I suppose one could pack along a few cherry bombs, and a slingshot, just to get the message across.  

Well, yeah, if you're willing to take the 2-stroke penalty for unusual equipment.