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Quietus

Just Can't Pitch/Chip Inside 60 Yards

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17 minutes ago, klineka said:

@b101 just beat me to it, but my thoughts below are VERY similar to his

For players that have 5 or more attempts for each distance this year:

Average proximity from 50-75 yds 15' 11"

Average proximity from 100-125 yards 20' 8"

The closer you are, the closer on average your next shot will be to the hole. 

 

You might be comparing PGA Tour Pro stats/data with someone who might hold a high handicap.  If you quoted tour pro stats, I don't disagree one bit.  Closer to pin green = closer to hole on green.  And tour pros understand the shot and most assuredly practice shots from that distance.

My contention is it's still a pretty dicey range and shot for many higher handicap players.  It's one I can hit but don't enjoy having one on every hole.  It's a case of going to the well one time to many!

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Thing is, the high handicapper is just as likely to chunk the wedge from 100 yards out as they are the wedge from 50 yards. If they're 10% out, they're more likely to be on the green than they are from 100 yards or in the fringe rather than a bunker. I just have never understood the logic - it's not a massively different shot as it still requires a full swing motion. 

The stats are exactly the same for amateurs as they are for PGA tour players - they hit more greens from 50 yards than they do from 100 yards.

Two other tips:

1) Control distance with partial wedges with varying the length of swing - don't change tempo or try to slow down.

2) Aim for the middle of the green, even from inside 100 yards. 

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@Quietus, I'd look for a course that has a larger short game area.  There's one around me that has grass you can hit off well past the chipping green.  It's 40 yards to the far flag and 50 to a drainage bowl just off the green that I aim at.  For the 60 yard shot I use the same half swing as my 50 yarder but with a 50* wedge instead of 54*.  If there is no course that has this, I wouldn't count out practicing off mats.  There are plenty of ways to skin a cat, but for these shots, I'm striking the ball first.  So I either take a divot off grass or thump the mat.  The point for me is to develop confidence in the swing and make clean contact.

I agree with @klineka about wanting to be as close to the hole, so this range presents a sort of high handicap paradox.  The high handicapper is advised to stay out of this range because it's a difficult shot.  But it's only difficult because they never practice it.  Yet they never practice it because they want to avoid this shot...

Edited by Foot Wedge
PS: I'd like to consider myself a higher handicap player. And this shot is well worth knowing.

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51 minutes ago, dave s said:

I still assert that 50-60 yard shots are difficult to hit with consistently quality results for many players.

Based on thousands and thousands of golf shots we measured in writing LSW… I strongly disagree. And these were random golfers. We didn't hand pick these guys to confirm our suspicions.

But, Dave, be excited! You have what I call an instant opportunity to upgrade your knowledge here! You can instantly get better at golf, and give other people better advice. Just listen to what people are saying to you, or buy and read all about it in LSW.

51 minutes ago, dave s said:

Those who need help with that awkward half wedge shot should attempt to get better at it as you indicate.  Those who simply can't manage those shots might want to avoid leaving themselves in that predicament.

Even those who never practice those shots tend to hit them closer than they do from 120 yards.

LSW has a few pages of charts here, with yardages from 50 to 130 yards.

51 minutes ago, dave s said:

I still assert that 50-60 yard shots are difficult to hit with consistently quality results for many players. From a tight fairway lie or off a mat at a range.  As far as getting as close as you possibly can to the green, yes indeed.  Agree 100%.

:hmm:

People have said that if you can get to 60 yards instead of even 100, you should strive to get there. And you've been arguing that.

They're saying the same thing as the bold above. So you're disagreeing… and then make a statement that agrees.

41 minutes ago, dave s said:

My contention is it's still a pretty dicey range and shot for many higher handicap players.  It's one I can hit but don't enjoy having one on every hole.  It's a case of going to the well one time to many!

Huh?

If you played 18 par threes from 100 to 130 yards, and 18 par threes from 40 to 70 yards… you'd almost surely score lower on the latter course, even it's a shot you don't practice very often (or ever).


We've tested a few of the people who say they can't hit this type of shot. The yardage varies by the person, but they're all somewhere like 35 to 75 yards.

With a single exception, everyone we tested who said this performed better from 35 to 75 yards than they did from their "full wedge preferred layup yardage."

That single exception was taking faster (for some reason?) full-length backswings and trying to slow down his downswing just the right amount. He bladed and chunked every shot from - IIRC - 55 yards. We showed him the better technique of taking it back with the same tempo to about belly button height (his feel - the club went back further than that) and he instantly got better, and became a member of the majority above.

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To prevent topping the ball on these little shots, think of sliding the sole of the club across the top of the grass. That's exactly what you do when you take a practice stroke. Forget about the ball. It's just something in the way.

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On 4/3/2018 at 6:34 PM, b101 said:

Two other tips:

1) Control distance with partial wedges with varying the length of swing - don't change tempo or try to slow down.

2) Aim for the middle of the green, even from inside 100 yards. 

This.

I hit my lob wedge (60 degree) 80-85 yards with a full swing. I have practiced a lot hitting shots to 70 yards, 60 yards, 50 yards and 40 yards by simply varying two things. The length of my swing and how much I choke down on the club. If I want 70 yards, I take it back 3/4 and grip normal. If I want 60 yards, I grip down an inch or so and take 3/4 swing. 50 yards, grip down a little more and take it back halfway. 40 yards etc......

Experiment.

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So I just wanted to chip in my problem (pun intended). 

I have a par 3 course and practice range I practice on most of the time. And we have mats to hit from from about 60y and 80y. Once I get dialed in I can pretty much hit the green from 60y on at least 35/40 balls with 5 of them being close to the green. If I step off the mat on the same distance, and lay the balls on the grass, I'll probably hit less than 20/40 greens... It's soft grass so I kinda dig under the ball often, but when I'm hitting off the mats I don't feel like I'm too steep or it would be painful hitting into the concrete under the mats...

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If a person is that terrible at a 50 or 60 yard shot then they need to work on their technique and practice. 

Blows my mind how scared of these shots people are. I lick my chops on a 50 yard wedge.

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On 08/04/2018 at 11:26 AM, Killa said:

So I just wanted to chip in my problem (pun intended). 

I have a par 3 course and practice range I practice on most of the time. And we have mats to hit from from about 60y and 80y. Once I get dialed in I can pretty much hit the green from 60y on at least 35/40 balls with 5 of them being close to the green. If I step off the mat on the same distance, and lay the balls on the grass, I'll probably hit less than 20/40 greens... It's soft grass so I kinda dig under the ball often, but when I'm hitting off the mats I don't feel like I'm too steep or it would be painful hitting into the concrete under the mats...

I don't think hitting these shots off a mat is helpful for these shots. Hitting a pitch shot off a mat is an absolute doddle, because you can basically just hit the ball fat and get away with it. Infact, if you generate even moderate spin, you'll find that your good shots get a lot of spin, hit the back of the green and stop/come back, while the very fat shots still make it close to the green and roll on.  This is fun, but not good practice imo.

When you play them from the ground you have you have to get your balance and tempo right, so I practice from the ground given that it will help me more on the course. 

 

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21 hours ago, Moxley said:

I don't think hitting these shots off a mat is helpful for these shots. Hitting a pitch shot off a mat is an absolute doddle, because you can basically just hit the ball fat and get away with it. Infact, if you generate even moderate spin, you'll find that your good shots get a lot of spin, hit the back of the green and stop/come back, while the very fat shots still make it close to the green and roll on.  This is fun, but not good practice imo.

When you play them from the ground you have you have to get your balance and tempo right, so I practice from the ground given that it will help me more on the course. 

 

 

Yeah I just got my second practice session in yesterday and reviewed the quickie pitching video. I'm pretty much the same from the grass now. Just needed a few "resets" that I forgot over the winter break - I was only playing/practicing 4 times from November till yesterday. 

 

What helped me most was - quick hinge, pivot turn and repeatedly telling myself that I don't need power for these shots as they are very short, so only tempo is important. 

 

I'm pretty confident that I'll drop my HCP from 31 to way below 20 this season. My goal is somewhere around 15, but I don't know if I'll find enough time to play enough tournaments to drop. 

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29 minutes ago, The Recreational Golfer said:

Geez! Pitching from those short ranges yards isn't hard if you practice it. A lot of what has been said to the contrary is a myth. As for tight lies, play the ball a little bit back in your stance and you'll be fine.

 

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1 minute ago, Vinsk said:

 

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. I said play it back a little if you have a tight lie. mvac seems to be talking about people who think you have to play EVERY short shot back in your stance, which I agree is dead wrong, and is not what I said. Am I missing something?

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29 minutes ago, The Recreational Golfer said:

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. I said play it back a little if you have a tight lie. mvac seems to be talking about people who think you have to play EVERY short shot back in your stance, which I agree is dead wrong, and is not what I said. Am I missing something?

Not entirely, no. I just don’t think a ‘tight lie’ alone is a reason to play the ball back. If you’re having to keep it low, branch, yes. Otherwise I think playing the ball back in a clear shot on a tight lie isn’t helping as regarding the bounce.

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On 4/1/2018 at 3:35 AM, Quietus said:

Thanks for this. I can't seem to wrap my head around the idea of why you'd want to use bounce for tighter lies. I get how it'd prevent the common issue of having the leading edge come in steep into the ground and barely launching the ball forward. However, wouldn't using the bounce make it so easy for the leading edge to hit the ball and just skull it? In a fluffy lie, I can see the club going under the ball avoiding this issue but on a tight lie, it seems like I'd just end up skulling the ball nonstop (which is my biggest issue already)!

Could anyone explain why using the bounce would increase the margin of error for these shots? I don't really understand it from reading the thread.

The deal is, you don't want to open the face too much! Just a little off a tight lie will do. After all, you're not playing out of a bunker! There are degrees of opening the face of the club! Opening the face allows the "bounce" to lie flatter to the ground, so it will "glide" better.

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