Golf Strategy Choices

[billchao]

Just now, boogielicious said:

Just ask J B Holmes at Torrey Pines! 

I don't have to. I know all too well the pain of taking the "safe" option off the tee and then missing it.

[iacas]

11 hours ago, edomingox said:

so the reason why I ask these is that I read somewhere that the tour pros have the same change of hitting the green from 100 yards in the rough as hitting 175 yards from the fairway.

Most guys don’t play PGA Tour rough.

[amished]

My home course doesn't have any bunkers, so when I see them I avoid them at all costs.  So I'd rather be closer in the first two questions, but I'd also rather lay up on the third question to just short of the bunker rather than 100 yards out.

[saevel25]

Q: Would you rather play from the fairway a 100 yard moderately uneven lie or a 175 flat lie?

A: I would play from the 100 yard uneven lie all day long. They really are not that difficult to deal with. I would bet, I would average closer to the pin from the uneven lie than from 175 yards over 100 shots.

Q: Would you rather hit from 100 yards in the rough or 175 yards from the fairway?

A: 100 yards from the rough. I don't play from PGA Tour level rough.

Q: You can reach the green on a par 5 at 240 yards. But you know you can't hold the green and it will most likely land in a greenside bunker or at worse, 20-30 yards from the green. Do you go for it or lay up to 100 yards?

A: Go for the green. For me, 240 yards isn't an automatic most likely land in a bunker. 25% of my shots from 225-250 yards land with in 15 yards of the pin. You can also error away from hazards. Outside the unique situations, there is typically an area to hit the ball in to minimize hazards. Also, I hit my hybrid pretty high. Most likely, my golf ball isn't bounding over the green. In your hypothetical, club down and run in up the front of the green. If there is a force carry, and there isn't a hazard behind the green, then aim for the middle and you'll probably end up a few yards over. The odds a ball going 20-30 yards away from the green is not common.

 

[billchao]

The 3rd question seems off. The way it's phrased, it makes it seem like being in a bunker is worse than being 20-30 yards off the green.

If my worst case scenario from 240 is 20-30 yards off and not in trouble, I'm going for it every time. I'll take a greenside bunker shot or a medium length pitch over a full swing from 100 yards any day.

[iacas]

Bunkers are hazards… unless just by getting it out you're still getting a GIR, in which case they're just fine. Assuming you don't blade or chunk every bunker shot you'll ever see.

The question was posed by someone who hasn't played golf yet. So that explains a lot.

[edomingox]

On 7/25/2018 at 7:28 PM, Shindig said:

Lay up to 100?  Why not lay up to 35 yards?

I'm going to give you a one-hour homework assignment that will save you strokes going forward.  It's seriously one of the easiest ways for someone to improve their scoring.  

Learn your tweener yardages.  It's really that easy:

 

I lay up to 100 because I can get the ball closer to the hole with a full swing rather than making partial wedge shots.  I don't practice 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 yard wedge shots.  I have full/partial wedge shots for 85, 90, 100, 115, 125.  I simply avoid 30-70 yards.  Just easier that way.  Certain circumstances may allow me to lay up at 35 yards, like being currently under par or no bunkers and large green to work with, but again, my default preference would be to lay up to 100.

With a full swing from 100, I'm 80% sure I can get it pin high.  I've done full swings at that distance thousands of times.  At 35 yards, just the slightest mishit from trying to hit softer or hitting it too hard would not guarantee the correct distance, especially if my ball is in the rough.  Which is why I prefer 100 in the fairway.

The fact of the matter for me is, I the only time I will really ever face these 30-70 yard shots are on the par 5's.  Even when I'm on a 350 par 4, I'll use the 3 wood instead of the driver because I find that my approach from 100 is better than my approach from 70.  When I start hitting my driver to the point I'm 60-70 yards in more often, then I'll start practicing those shots.  Until then, I practice 100 yard shots mainly.

Edited August 1, 2018 by edomingox
adding more

[saevel25]

7 minutes ago, edomingox said:

I lay up to 100 because I can get the ball closer to the hole with a full swing rather than making partial wedge shots.  I don't practice 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 yard wedge shots.  I have full/partial wedge shots for 85, 90, 100, 115, 125.  I simply avoid 30-70 yards.  Just easier that way. 

Just sounds lazier, really.

You'd be better off practicing those 30-70 yard shots. They use a shorter swing, so they are more accurate.

The green is effectively wider for you relative to how offline you can hit it. Meaning, if you have +/- 6 degrees error in your ball flight laterally. At 100 yards, your shot zone is 21 yards wide. Lets assume it's the same degree of error, it's only 6 yards wide for a 30 yard shot.

It's easier to control the distance from those short distances. You also have a wider selection of shots to play as well. It's easier to control trajectory and spin from a shorter distance.

[edomingox]

5 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Just sounds lazier, really.

You'd be better off practicing those 30-70 yard shots. They use a shorter swing, so they are more accurate.

The green is effectively wider for you relative to how offline you can hit it. Meaning, if you have +/- 6 degrees error in your ball flight laterally. At 100 yards, your shot zone is 21 yards wide. Lets assume it's the same degree of error, it's only 6 yards wide for a 30 yard shot.

It's easier to control the distance from those short distances. You also have a wider selection of shots to play as well. It's easier to control trajectory and spin from a shorter distance.

In a way, I am being lazier.  I practice mainly chipping and putting, which leaves me no time to practice partial wedge shots.  I just don't go to the range because that costs money.  I play at my course because my membership is paid for the year, and I'm not about to make 50 divots at 40 yards to practice a shot I may make only once or twice a round.

Edited August 1, 2018 by edomingox

[saevel25]

30 minutes ago, edomingox said:

In a way, I am being lazier.  I practice mainly chipping and putting,

Find a course with a short game area. You can typically hit shots out to 50-60 yards.

[DaveP043]

5 hours ago, edomingox said:

In a way, I am being lazier.  I practice mainly chipping and putting, which leaves me no time to practice partial wedge shots.  I just don't go to the range because that costs money.  I play at my course because my membership is paid for the year, and I'm not about to make 50 divots at 40 yards to practice a shot I may make only once or twice a round.

I can't say I practice from 40 or 60 yards, I'm generally working on full swing things when I practice.  But I still find that I'm more accurate from 70 yards than I am from 90, and better still at 50 yards.  My mistakes aren't as bad, and my good shots are closer.  Until fairly recently I followed the old conventional wisdom, I played for standard full swing shots rather than try to get 10 or 20 or 40 yards closer.  I accepted some advice with an open mind, tried to get as close as possible without adding on significant risk, and its working out better for me.

[JonMA1]

I answered the option that would leave me closest to the hole on each of the three question. The only thing about question three is that I can't reach from 240 but I'm still using my longest club on that shot if bunkers are the only danger.

Don't know if anyone mentioned it in this thread but it's been brought up in others. Even if my 100 yard shot was the one I have the most confidence in, it's not like I can hit a precise 140 yard shot to get to that distance. So I'd be left with 105, 110, 95, 90...

I guess I don't understand being that confident with a 100 yard shot. At what distance off 100 yards do those folks become less confident?

[billchao]

6 hours ago, saevel25 said:

You'd be better off practicing those 30-70 yard shots. They use a shorter swing, so they are more accurate.

To be fair, I don't practice those shots either. I mapped my partial wedges with my Mevo at the beginning of the year and as I played all season I got better at hitting my number and I learned how the ball will behave once it hits the green, but that's something I learned on the course. Just doing that improved my short game tremendously.

[DrMJG]

On the "from the rough" question, for me, depends if it is a first cut rough or rough as defined on a Scottish course  This year I have been lucky to get first cut every time.

[308 Ragin Cajun]

I'll always takr the shorter shot, depending on the rough. the rough at my course is not that penal. if it's British Open type rough, I would have to rethink my answer. On the par 5, if the worse thing i have to face would be a sand trap or 20=-30 yard pitch, there's no question. If an errant shot could land me in the water, OB, or in thick bushes with no shot, again, rethink.

[DaveP043]

Again, the choice is really something like would you prefer 80% fairway/20% rough from 100, or 60% fairway/40% rough from 50 yards. There's no certainty that you hit the fairway with a shorter layup, and no certainty that you hit the rough with a more aggressive choice.