Tour Players and 2019 Rules (Running Topic)

[Vinsk]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I'd hope Justin would do the adult thing, maybe admit that he's fine with a lot of the rule changes, 

Well he hasn’t done that. And the USGA calling him out could’ve been handled better with simple change of word use. I support your optimism but rather than JT just saying ‘he’s fine with the rule changes’ I’d rather him read and show understanding which would lead to either:

1. An apology for prematurely ranting before having a thorough comprehension of the rule changes.

2. Provide his understanding of the new rule(s) and present an intelligent debate if he disagrees.

Unfortunately I predict he will accept the apology, feed his little ego and then say he accepts the new rules but ‘doesn’t like them.’ His focus is being the hero who made the USGA backtrack. He’ll lose interest now.

[iacas]

Just now, Vinsk said:

Unfortunately I predict he will accept the apology, feed his little ego and then say he accepts the new rules but ‘doesn’t like them.’ His focus is being the hero who made the USGA backtrack. He’ll lose interest now.

I don't think the USGA's post counts as an apology, and he retweeted it within a few minutes of it being sent out.

[Vinsk]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't think the USGA's post counts as an apology, and he retweeted it within a few minutes of it being sent out.

Yes that’s a valid take. I just wish they had left it with ‘JT didn’t cancel any meetings.’ He admitted they called him to talk and he said he couldn’t at the time. So he did pretty much avoid communication but not actually ‘cancel’ any meetings. But either way it’s a non-issue compared to the real issue at hand. I’ve yet to read/hear any good point that validates the complaints.

[sjduffers]

On 3/4/2019 at 5:53 AM, saevel25 said:

Umm... You say he comes off as a winy old bastard, yet you want him to grow up?

Touché!  

But I meant grow up, not grow older. There is a slight difference... 

On 3/4/2019 at 7:35 AM, iacas said:

I think the USGA’s tweet was great. They keep getting kicked by people who are ignorant. They finally called one out.

Yes, but the USGA didn't have to say that JT had "cancelled" 7 meetings with them. He didn't attend 7 USGA-players meetings, there is a slight difference. It's not like he made a commitment to attend and then cancelled: he never was interested in attending those educational meetings in the first place. Boo for him for doing that, but it's not as bad as the USGA made it look...

[bkuehn1952]

At least one member of the press feels ranting about the Rules is not a good look for the Tour players.

Column: Complaining about rules not doing golf any favors

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The memo PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan sent to players on the new Rules of Golf can be interpreted different ways based as much on the timing as the message.

 

[DaveP043]

16 hours ago, sjduffers said:

Touché!  

But I meant grow up, not grow older. There is a slight difference... 

Yes, but the USGA didn't have to say that JT had "cancelled" 7 meetings with them. He didn't attend 7 USGA-players meetings, there is a slight difference. It's not like he made a commitment to attend and then cancelled: he never was interested in attending those educational meetings in the first place. Boo for him for doing that, but it's not as bad as the USGA made it look...

None of us know what JT did or didn't do, really.  Its is quite possible that the USGA backed away from its earlier tweet in order to start to move things forward.  Documenting for the world to see each time they called JT, each time he backed away from a meeting or conference call, chose not to attend a player-USGA presentation, that would have only worsened the situation.  I don't pretend to know the reality, but my best guess is that neither side's public statements have been completely accurate.

[Vinsk]

15 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

None of us know what JT did or didn't do, really.  Its is quite possible that the USGA backed away from its earlier tweet in order to start to move things forward.  Documenting for the world to see each time they called JT, each time he backed away from a meeting or conference call, chose not to attend a player-USGA presentation, that would have only worsened the situation.  I don't pretend to know the reality, but my best guess is that neither side's public statements have been completely accurate.

I agree with you. I do feel JT probably deserved some backlash though as he’s been an ass about the rule changes. I also agree with article  @iacas wrote and would’ve liked to seen the USGA respond perhaps as: “ Hey JT, we think there must be some misunderstanding regarding the interpretation of certain new rules. We’ve tried to communicate with you but unfortunately haven’t succeeded. We’d love to have a meeting ASAP at your convenience.’

In non-pc terms: You obviously don’t understand the new rules you’ve had almost a year to review. Shut your whiney pie hole and talk to us before you heed the call of your equally confused socialites.’

[sjduffers]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

None of us know what JT did or didn't do, really.  Its is quite possible that the USGA backed away from its earlier tweet in order to start to move things forward. 

True to some extent. I was referring to the players meeting organized by the USGA at the start of the year, before the tournaments (I think those took place on Tuesdays) where all the players in the field for those tournaments were invited. Those meetings were intended to explain the new rules (the whys and hows) as well as provide guidance and examples in potentially tricky situations, in order to avoid what we are seeing now...

Being that the first 2 of these meetings were in Hawaii, JT found other (fun) things to do rather than bother with a rule education seminar. I don't really blame him for that, had he done any proactive work with the rules (i.e. reading and commenting on them since last Spring) instead of having the kind of reaction he is having right now.

Hopefully, they can put this past them, both the USGA and JT, as this is not a good look for the sport/game and clearly not the way to inspire the youngsters looking up to those pros...

[iacas]

JT was at 3 of the first 5 tournaments where the USGA had a big presence.

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Hopefully, they can put this past them, both the USGA and JT, as this is not a good look for the sport/game and clearly not the way to inspire the youngsters looking up to those pros...

This is probably my biggest gripe with the whole thing.  For all of JT's nearly tearful talk about his interest in the good of the game, he can't review his twitter history and claim that his behavior helps the game at all.  Same with Rickie's "dropping a deuce", they both look like petulant children.  If they want to help the game, they should try to act like adults.

[iacas]

30 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

This is probably my biggest gripe with the whole thing.  For all of JT's nearly tearful talk about his interest in the good of the game, he can't review his twitter history and claim that his behavior helps the game at all.  Same with Rickie's "dropping a deuce", they both look like petulant children.  If they want to help the game, they should try to act like adults.

No, and I get it - it sucks that he got a penalty for dropping improperly.

But geez, just say "Yeah, brain farted there and reverted to old habits in the heat of the moment. Hopefully I learned my lesson."

[ncates00]

Which rules are they so bent out of shape about?  The drop doesn't seem to matter, caddies standing behind the players makes sense to me, repairing marks makes sense, but the flagstick rule could be a good argument because it clearly makes it easier.  No one seems to be complaining so much about that one, because Rickie is taking "dump" drops and others complain about the caddie rule.  If anything, complain about the flagstick rule.  Or, just play the game, because other than the flagstick rule, I don't see how any of the rules have a material impact to their play, aside from ignorance of how the rules work.

[gbogey]

18 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Which rules are they so bent out of shape about? 

That's what I keep thinking about. I'm one who thinks in some cases the pro should have their own rules - the recent local option about OB being an example - but realistically which ones are they unhappy with? The Tour could implement a local rule every week if they wanted to, but do they really want to? Can you imagine the fun Johnny Miller would have had saying, "Justin is using his caddie to line up there. You at home aren't allowed to do that, but these are the best players in the world and they are playing for $1 million, so they are allowed," or "Rickie is taking his time reviewing his enhanced green book.  Amateurs aren't allowed to use those, but even though these are the best players in the world they need that book to take this putt." It's ridiculous which is why the commissioner sent out his letter.  

[DeadMan]

6 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

At least one member of the press feels ranting about the Rules is not a good look for the Tour players.

Column: Complaining about rules not doing golf any favors

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The memo PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan sent to players on the new Rules of Golf can be interpreted different ways based as much on the...

 

There's a good point in here about the new rules: There have been 3 penalties assessed because of the new rules in PGA Tour events so far this year. 3 penalties? This is that big of a deal because of 3 penalties?

[iacas]

3 hours ago, DeadMan said:

There's a good point in here about the new rules: There have been 3 penalties assessed because of the new rules in PGA Tour events so far this year. 3 penalties? This is that big of a deal because of 3 penalties?

Isn't it just two? Rickie's drop, Adam Schenk's bunker/caddie thing?

Haotong Li was on the European Tour.

[Vinsk]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

Isn't it just two? Rickie's drop, Adam Schenk's bunker/caddie thing?

Haotong Li was on the European Tour.

I think a player 'McCarty, McCarthy?' got a caddie penalty in the Waste Mgmt.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I think a player 'McCarty, McCarthy?' got a caddie penalty in the Waste Mgmt.

No. Rescinded.

[DeadMan]

51 minutes ago, iacas said:

Isn't it just two? Rickie's drop, Adam Schenk's bunker/caddie thing?

Haotong Li was on the European Tour.

DJ got a penalty for hitting a ball that wasn't his out of a penalty area in the Kapalua event: 

Dustin Johnson plays wrong ball, gets 2-shot penalty at Sentry TOC | Golf Channel

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Dustin Johnson was penalized two shots for hitting a wrong ball from the penalty area Friday at Kapalua.