2016 Rules & Decisions

[Asheville]

4-4c/1 Excess Club Declared Out of Play Before Round

Q. Shortly before the start of a round, a player discovers that he inadvertently has 15 clubs in his golf bag. He declares one of the clubs out of play to his opponent, marker or fellow-competitor and begins the round. Is the player subject to penalty?

A. No. In these narrow circumstances (i.e. the discovery was made shortly before the round, the player had 15 clubs, having the extra club was inadvertent and the player declared one of the clubs out of play), for the purposes of applying Rule 4-4a, the player is not considered to be carrying the club or to have selected the club for play, even though it is physically in his possession. If possible, the player should seek to highlight the club that is out of play by setting it apart from the other clubs, such as by placing it on the floor of his golf cart or turning it upside down in his golf bag. In any other circumstances (e.g. the player carries more than 15 clubs, etc.), the player is in breach of Rule 4-4a. (Revised)

I'm glad the RB's changed this one.  I'm sure many golfers have done the above, not realizing it did not absolve them from a penalty.

Good change, but watch the "inadvertancy" requirement get stretched pretty hard by the heathens! 

[David in FL]

Good change, but watch the "inadvertancy" requirement get stretched pretty hard by the heathens! 

Yeah, I like that too!

[Fourputt]

Good change, but watch the "inadvertancy" requirement get stretched pretty hard by the heathens! 

Several of the new changes seem to put more reliance on the honor of the player.  

6-6d - disqualification can be averted by simply being a good liar.  

"I had no idea that you couldn't touch the ground in a bunker!"  

Or..

"Really?  I can't take my ball out of a divot?  I didn't know that!"

The more you place the responsibility on the player's honor, the easier you make it for those who have none.

[Asheville]

Yeah, I like that too!

I wasn't suggesting dishonesty, merely that a player coming from the range but knowing full well that he has 15 clubs, rather than leave the extra one in the car, will just declare it out of play.

[rogolf]

I wasn't suggesting dishonesty, merely that a player coming from the range but knowing full well that he has 15 clubs, rather than leave the extra one in the car, will just declare it out of play.

That's not "inadvertent" and does not meet the "narrow circumstances" required, therefore penalized.

[Martyn W]

Does anyone else here see the contradiction here -6-1 The player is responsible for knowing the Rules (except if he doesn't and it comes to light after he has returned his scorecard, he is still in the competition)

[No Mulligans]

Does anyone else here see the contradiction here -6-1 The player is responsible for knowing the Rules (except if he doesn't and it comes to light after he has returned his scorecard, he is still in the competition)

Not a contradiction as there is still a penalty for not knowing the rules.  It's not a DQ but still a penalty.

[Fourputt]

Not a contradiction as there is still a penalty for not knowing the rules.  It's not a DQ but still a penalty.

Makes it too easy.  All it takes is a simple declaration of ignorance and he gets docked 2 strokes but is still in the competition.  I've always thought that 6-1 was the player's most basic responsibility, and it should come with the harshest penalty.

[Dormie1360]

Several of the new changes seem to put more reliance on the honor of the player.  

6-6d - disqualification can be averted by simply being a good liar.  

"I had no idea that you couldn't touch the ground in a bunker!"  

Or..

"Really?  I can't take my ball out of a divot?  I didn't know that!"

The more you place the responsibility on the player's honor, the easier you make it for those who have none.

To me it almost seems this change is more for TV golf.  4 day tournaments where the window for a DQ is larger, viewer call ins, etc.  I still think the clowns you describe above are mostly playing in one day tournaments, maybe 2, where the time between returning the card and the results are announced is small, which is the only time this rule change applies.  There will be few people watching players play, if at all, and if the marker does not see the infraction, how would this really come up then.  Not that it can't..... but I don't know, I guess we will get a better feel when local tournaments start next year.  

I'll be interested to get Pagel's reasoning on this in the spring.  As I've said, I am surprised of the change.

 

[rkim291968]

Several of the new changes seem to put more reliance on the honor of the player.  

6-6d - disqualification can be averted by simply being a good liar.  

"I had no idea that you couldn't touch the ground in a bunker!"  

Or..

"Really?  I can't take my ball out of a divot?  I didn't know that!"

The more you place the responsibility on the player's honor, the easier you make it for those who have none.

Since golfers never lie, I like the rule changes.  

[RandallT]

I don't play competitive golf at all, but my sense from reading this thread is that this could be a somewhat tectonic shift regarding a player's responsibility to be intimately familiar with the rules.  Are other golf forums and golf information outlets discussing it this way, or is this perhaps something notable, but not necessarily a dramatic departure from the spirit of the rules?

[Asheville]

Does anyone else here see the contradiction here -6-1 The player is responsible for knowing the Rules (except if he doesn't and it comes to light after he has returned his scorecard, he is still in the competition)

I see it as previously incurred penalty applied plus two more for not complying with R6-1. Pretty good outcome, I'd say. And, bet he/she won't make that same mistake again anytime soon. 

[rogolf]

I see it as previously incurred penalty applied plus two more for not complying with R6-1. Pretty good outcome, I'd say. And, bet he/she won't make that same mistake again anytime soon. 

It's a total of at least three strokes, often time four strokes.  That is significant.  I understand that if this should happen on the PGA Tour and the player previously had made the cut without the penalty strokes and missed the cut with them, he would be judged MC immediately, even if he was on the course during the 3rd/4th round.

When the ruling bodies review the Rules, they likely ask themselves "do we like the outcome that a breach of this Rule gives?"  If the answer is no, then they look at ways to produce an outcome that is more to their liking.  And they are given lots of feedback on the outcomes!

Edited October 28, 2015 by rogolf

[Asheville]

It's a total of at least three strokes, often time four strokes.  That is significant.  I understand that if this should happen on the PGA Tour and the player previously had made the cut without the penalty strokes and missed the cut with them, he would be judged MC immediately, even if he was on the course during the 3rd/4th round.

When the ruling bodies review the Rules, they likely ask themselves "do we like the outcome that a breach of this Rule gives?"  If the answer is no, then they look at ways to produce an outcome that is more to their liking.  And they are given lots of feedback on the outcomes!

I like your description of the review process. (Knowing that you've been there helps.  ) I perceive the Rules review process as very pure. It's not done to draw more TV viewers to some spectacle on Monday night.  

[Dormie1360]

Many are familiar with the website "Through the Green" run by Lew Blakey.  The link below is a side by side comparison of what was deleted and/or added to each rule.   FYI.

2012 - 2016 Comparison

 

[turtleback]

A ball in play that has been marked but not lifted remains in play. A ball that has been marked, lifted and replaced is back in play whether or not the ballmarker has been removed.

Is it just me or is this one likely to catch some guys out at the start, until they get used to it.  As I read this you cannot replace your ball, leave the marker there, and then rotate the ball to get your sharpy line lined up right.   I'm a little surprised that they would, in effect, outlaw something that has been done routinely for quite some time.  What was the issue this was addressing?

[iacas]

Is it just me or is this one likely to catch some guys out at the start, until they get used to it.  As I read this you cannot replace your ball, leave the marker there, and then rotate the ball to get your sharpy line lined up right.   I'm a little surprised that they would, in effect, outlaw something that has been done routinely for quite some time.  What was the issue this was addressing?

I think you're reading that wrong. You can still rotate the ball - that's the act of marking or replacing. That just talks about leaving a ball marked and walking away. Otherwise you'd never get to pick your ball up at all.

[Dormie1360]

Here is a link with a discussion between Rickman and Pagel concerning the new rules.  For what it's worth, below is Pagel's response to one concern that's come up.

 

Q. Is there a fear that players might take advantage of this situation, let's say plead ignorance, for example?
THOMAS PAGEL: No. It's certainly something we talked about, and I would just say that the prospect of four strokes being added to your scorecard after is still extremely severe. So while it's not disqualification, it would have a significant impact on one's position. I guess I'll just note that as with all other rules, our starting point is to assume the honor and honesty and integrity of the player. We try not to start -- we try not to write the rules from a starting point that we presume somebody will try and take advantage of it, so again, I think that's why we're comfortable, again, especially given the prospect of a four-stroke penalty.