Guys what should I have done?

Yesterday I had a 4:30 tee time for myself and my usual playing partner at a local course. This course has a starter but he stays up a the club house and acts as a kind of golfcart keeper. When you come out of the clubhouse he takes your slip and checks it and then gives you a key to a cart. From where he usually sits, he cannot see the first tee box.

After we get our key and cart loaded we drive down to the first tee. There is a foursome there, warming up and stretching before hitting off on a completely empty first hole. We stopped a respectful distance and waited. Well, between the stretching and practice swings, they take until about 4:45 to clear the tee box. As we are watching them drive off, another twosome drives down and joins us to make it a foursome.

Now it quickly becomes clear these two nice young men are beginners. They hustle to their shots, don't look for long for their balls when they go into the woods (which they both did) but they still take a good many shots to get to the green. My partner and myself both make quick bogies.

As we tee off on the 2nd hole I see that the group ahead of us is already on the green. And I notice that the group behind us is a threesome and they all hit their approaches onto the 1st green already and are walking up with putters. AND there is another foursome behind them with excellent approach shots.

Both my partner and I hit our shots onto the fairway but the beginners pull both their drives into the woods. Still, I see them hustle out to where they went into the woods and while they are looking, both my partner and I hit our 2nd shots. When they see we have finished, they immediately drop balls and hit, though both of them hit topped shots.

Now, while we are waiting for them to hit again, the ranger pulls up next to us. "We got complaints from the group behind you and yall are going to have let them play through," he says. I look back and see that he does have a problem, there is that group waiting on us, plus at least two groups on the first hole. They had a league that night and I am pretty sure they had a crowd on the first tee waiting to go off.

I told him that with that crowd behind us it would be difficult to let the threesome through without having to let the whole league through too, so instead we would pick up the pace and make sure we never let there be an open hole in front of us. I could not see the foursome in front of us, but neither could he and I was certain they had not finished playing the 3rd hole, a par 3.

He sighed and rolled his eyes at me and drove back to the group behind us. By now the beginners with us had hit up next to the green and were starting to chip on. I drove to where my ball and just picked it up, I had missed the green way right anyway, but my partner was on and she went up to try her birdie putt.

As I am sitting in the cart waiting for them to putt out, the ranger drives right back up and says again that we have to let them play through. I said he has to at least give us a chance to catch up with the group in front of us. I was afraid that if we let this fast playing threesome through, the just as fast playing foursome behind them would immediately catch up to us too and then what do we do? Wouldn't they complain about having to watch my beginners tee off on a par 3 with a water carry?

He said he was just doing his job and he had to think about all the other golfers on the course. I said if we let one play through we would have let several play through and then we would be lucky to finish by dark and that it was unfair to us to ask us to sacrifice our round. He said he was sorry but he had to insist that we let them play through. At that point I decided I wanted to speak with his manager. My partner and I got in our carts and drove back up to the clubhouse. We were told that the manager was not there, there was no one authorized to talk to us about the issue and we could not be issued a refund or a rain check. We did get a phone number for manager but had to leave a message. With the course this crowded we felt we had no other choice but to leave.

So guys what should I have done? I guess I have been lucky because I have never been approached by a ranger about slow play before but it is my understanding that you receive a warning first. I have never heard of anyone being ordered to let a group play through either, especially on the 2nd hole. Should I have done what he said and let them play through and then repeated the process with the group behind them? Should I have just pointed the ranger to the beginners and said talk to them, they are the problem not me? But I am sure they would have let the other group play through which would have just delayed the problem until the next group complained...

The general practice is to give one or two warnings before suggesting anything else and those warnings are usually spread out with enough time to actually give your group time to prove that your are (or aren't) playing faster. Rangers at my home course don't usually give a warning before the 4th hole or so unless that group is really bad.

I've never seen a ranger suggest allowing groups to play through if he knows that there are groups ahead anyway. Playing through is for the benefit of a single group - it does nothing to help the overall pace of play on the course (which should be the ranger's main concern).

On my home courses it's three warnings and then ejection (provided that the group is really slow - its never come to that). If a group shows that they can't maintain any semblance of pace or totally refuse to play faster, then there's no need to keep them on the course and wreck everybody else's day.

I would've let the three play through but then asked the ranger to split up from the twosome if there was continued pressure from groups behind. Since the ranger obviously has no issues with giving preference to groups of three or less, I don't see how he could say no. There wasn't a need to ruin your day unless you were just so frustrated at that point that you wanted out.

I hope this wasn't your home course, both the ranger and the players/league behind you sounded like jerks.

You lost me at "joined by twosome of beginners" and "new tee time is 4:45". I suspect a group cut in front of you, the beginner twosome should have remained a twosome and taken the heat, and your starter is a tool.

Never had an issue like this. I have never been warned once to speed up, even in a foursome.

I would have told him "I'll put us on the clock". I believe they even do this to the pro's. It takes about 12 minutes to play a Par 4. If you speed up play there should be no reason for the marshall to come back to you. As long as you catch up to the group in front you should be ok.

I would have asked the Marshal to stay with your group and to move the two struggling guys along. Forcing a play-though was unfair IMHO.

If you feel so inclined, you might send a letter to the course manager and copy the owner/ownership group, if you can determine it. Pace of play really is a joint responsibility between the course and the players.

For some reason this year I've had more encounters with marshals than in the past (well, the reason is that I've happened to play with some beginning players and players who like to hunt for their (many) lost balls for a while). It's caused me to realize that being a marshal can be a tough job that requires more finesse than some may realize.

A couple weeks ago, I was in a foursome playing a back nine. There was a pair ahead of us that quickly pulled away from our group, leaving us as essentially the lead group. As we finished up on the green of par 4 #11, a foursome behind us pulled into position for their approach shots from the fairway. On par 5 #12, we were putting as they teed off. On long par 4 #13, we were again putting as they teed off. On #14, the marshal approached us. "Guys, have you noticed if the group behind's been pushing you?" We replied, "We seem to be at about the same pace, sir." "Okay, well, we got a complaint about slow play, so we're just trying to see if we can figure out where it's coming from. Just so you know, pace is supposed to average 15 minutes a hole." He then turned around and drove back. I checked my watch and we were right at 5 minutes over pace, and we wound up finishing right on pace (and on the back nine, there are no par 3's until #14, so that explained that).

Obviously, we were the suspect group. Assuming the marshal had actually had a complaint, I thought he handled it about as well as possible. Came up and gave us a gentle reminder to keep up our pace, and then was able to go back to report to whoever complained that he'd spoken with the group or groups ahead.

It appears to me that you have already written your letter to the manager. Why don't you cut and paste your original post and send it to the manager asking what he or she thinks you should have done? I'll bet the manager makes it right.

First, good thread & question. I like that you gave a detailed account of the situation.

I guess what I would have done is let the threesome play through after the 2nd approach. You had already made your (well-stated) case, and if the guy doesn't agree with it or doesn't appreciate it, then fine. The last thing I want is a round where I'm being hassled or continually reminded that the marshal wants the group behind to play through. Your worry was that eventually all groups would want to play through. I suggest just crossing that bridge when it gets there and trying to enjoy your round up until that point.

The suggestion of having the marshal join your group for a couple holes was a good one. You don't really want to rat out the twosome that joined you, but if they're the reason your round is being sacrificed, the marshal should be able to see that and act accordingly.

I play on some courses where the marshal doesn't do a thing and is rarely found on the course. So I appreciate him trying to do his job, it just seems like he handled it poorly in this case.

Brandon

The starter should have talked to the slow players in your group, it seems he only talked to you.

Personally I would have asked the beginners to either play best ball or sit out a hole while you guys caught up. I am a 27 handicap and if I am having a bad day and slowing down the group I will play best ball. It's a little embarrassing I admit but I can tell they appreciate it.

That's my experience. Most ranger's have just enough bravery to speak with someone in the group, but not enough to confront the actual offender. They leave that to the guys standing in the fairway who's waiting on the guys in the weed to just F'n drop already! I was just discussing this with a guy at work this morning. One course has a senile ranger sit between a tricky little par three green and the teebox for the following par short 5. He makes every group step off the green (once everyone is ready to putt) then waive the following group up, thus ensuring every group has a terrible score and experience on that hole. Then on the next hole he tells people to tee off even though the group ahead is likely still in the landing area waiting for the green to clear.

lol, well said. I play a par-3 style course every once in a while to work on my irons. 6 of the 9 holes are PW or lower (GW, SW, LW). One is about 160 yards, another 140 and the 7th hole is a 200-210 yard par 3.

On the 7th hole there is a sign requiring people on the green to allow the people on the tee box to tee off. I understand why, since most of the people that play there are very new beginners, senior citizens and/or children. But my experience on that hole is that I'm never close to hitting the green when I'm waved up to tee off. It just never happens. When nobody is on the green I've hit it about 30-40% of the time, so it's not like odds are in my favor anyway. But something about teeing off while people are directly in the targeted landing area can't help. Brandon

I would have started at my tee time. Apparently the guys in front of you cut. The ranger should have talked to the slow guys in your group, not you. Go back and talk to the manager face to face and tell him your situation.

Yeah-and I don't think it's "ratting out" the 2 slow guys in your group. I'd tell the ranger directly-"these are nice guys you paired with us, but they're slow. Talk to them if you have an issue, there's nothing I can do to play any faster."

I'm generally disappointed by the rangers. When there is a legitimate slow play issue with a group (and not just a crowded course), they are reluctant to address the issue, or absent altogether. Last summer I was driving away from a green towards the next tee box, and I stopped to say hi to the ranger. His response, "you guys really need to pick up the pace." My response, "the group in front of us just finished teeing off. The group in front of them is on the green, and the next group is waiting at the tee. Would you like me to hit into them?" "No-just make sure you move along."

first of all, how much time are we talking about? how long did it take your group to play the first 2 holes?


and to be quite honest, i wish we had more diligent rangers like yours at my courses. too many people play slow and the rangers are unwilling to confront them.

Good thread with some thoughtful responses - it seems that all too often a thread like this deteriorates quickly into a lot of non sequiturs. Probably because the OP took the time to provide a detailed explanation so there wasn't a whole lot of speculation - good starter!

My thoughts are that this really wasn't all that bad all around - I don't think the marshall was off base much. As one poster said, being a marshal is harder than it looks. From my experience most marshalls are retired, and the ones I've chatted up generally haven't come from jobs with a lot of people management skills. Some I know are a couple doctors, a postman, an attorney, a ship mechanic, an EMT, and a software programmer, and I doubt any of them have learned the art of understanding how to manage different people in different situations. It is also hard for a marshal to really know who the slow players in a group are without really watching closely for a number of holes, so it is reasonable for him to address the group as a whole, and in your case he happened to use you as the contact point. Who knows, perhaps he spoke to you because he saw that you had ettiquite and played well, and he hoped you would "manage" your foursome. I don't think it unreasonable that he ask you to allow a group to play through. Ideally this would alleviate some of the backup behind you, and then if your group picked up the pace all would be well.

I also think it appropriate that you discussed the situation a bit with him, with concerns that you would have to let every group go through. Hopefully he listened and considered this, and I think I would draw the same conclusion as he did that you should go ahead and let one group through with the hope that things would get better.

One thing perhaps you could have done is take control of your foursome and use this as a teaching moment for the beginners you were paired with. Explain to them that the marshal expressed concern that the group was playing too slowly, and ask for all their help (your buddy too) in making sure that you keep up. You can comment to the beginners that it isn't a matter of how many shots one takes, as the whole golf swing only takes a few seconds - it is what you do in between shots and getting ready. You don't want them to feel self-conscious of taking too many shots or discouraging them from the game, making them feel you're a golf snob who looks down on beginners.

I had a similar situation last year where I went as a single and was teamed up with a threesome of a guy and his son and brother. They weren't very good, and a couple of them were clearly just learning the game. The marshall talked to me as I was walking down the fairway (the other 3 were in carts), so I told the marshall that it appeared they hadn't yet learned the art of playing quickly and I'd do what I could to help. I told the 3some that the marshall was concerned we weren't keeping up, and sort of issued a challenge to each of us to prove the marshall wrong and leave the groups behind us in the dust. We made a game of seeing how quickly we could play. I showed the others tricks like taking more than one club from the cart to the ball, how to spot the yardage markers while walking to the ball and getting yardage beforehand rather than as an afterthought, how each of us could be reading our putts at the same time, etc. Basically I just tried to make it lighthearted and fun to see how much distance we could put between us and the guys behind us. We got one hole ahead, then said "let's try for 2!" We finished with the groups behind us at least 2-3 holes behind, and really took a lot of enjoyment from making that happen. And the funny thing that they seemed to play better in the process. Hopefully they all learned and are still applying those tricks.

as soon as the marshall started bugging me about letting the group behind pass through, i would have said ok, you just lost two customers. i'd have marched back to the clubhouse, demanded a refund, and written a letter to the pro about how he can more fairly run his course.