Stack & Tilt hurts my left hip.

**JerseyThursday** · April 5, 2011

Maybe I’m getting old, but the move of sliding your hips forward (image on the right) has started to cause a pain in my left hip when executing the swing in this manner. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, what did you do the alleviate it?

**NEOHMark** · April 5, 2011

I don't know a whole lot about S&T;, but it seems to restrict the natural weight shift from the back leg to the front leg.....keeping it 'stacked' on the front leg throughout. In my mind, anything that inhibits or restricts a natural weight shift from back to front will very likely lead to some pain simply due to tension in the muscles you are trying to restrict. JMHO

**Elvisliveson** · April 5, 2011

Wow, I thought it was just me. After a year of trying S&T;, I have moved away from it for that very reason.IIt felt like a hip pointer and I thought is was the result of an old motorcycle accident, but it only hurt doing S&T;, not even with heavy weight lifting moves like squats and leg presses. Going back to a swing that allowed for a weight shift and some hip turn on the back swing has totally alleviated the problem.

**mvmac** · April 5, 2011

Originally Posted by NEOHMark

I don't know a whole lot about S&T;, but it seems to restrict the natural weight shift from the back leg to the front leg.....keeping it 'stacked' on the front leg throughout. In my mind, anything that inhibits or restricts a natural weight shift from back to front will very likely lead to some pain simply due to tension in the muscles you are trying to restrict. JMHO

Just to clarify, S&T; isn't about keeping the weight stacked on the forward feet, stacked is about having the shoulders over the hips at address. Here is Grant Waite explaining an important part of the pivot

**JerseyThursday** · April 5, 2011

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

Wow, I thought it was just me. After a year of trying S&T;, I have moved away from it for that very reason.IIt felt like a hip pointer and I thought is was the result of an old motorcycle accident, but it only hurt doing S&T;, not even with heavy weight lifting moves like squats and leg presses. Going back to a swing that allowed for a weight shift and some hip turn on the back swing has totally alleviated the problem.

Hip pointer is the perfect way to describe it. It started as a slight pulling ache when I worked on the swing this spring. But, tonight I was hitting drives at the range and really working on the hip slide and ouch! Such a sharp pain that I had to stop completely.

Here the description of the motion from the Golf Tips article. Maybe we weren’t doing something right.

4. SLIDE YOUR HIPS

Mike’s tilt is a result of Andy’s hip slide.
Plummer: Another component to demonstrate is the linear component or the hip slide. So we have extension, left tilt and hip slide. (And, trust us, we recognize that “slide” is a dirty word in golf.)

The poorest players don’t move their hips forward enough, long enough. In fact a good mantra for golfers would be: “fast enough, forward enough, long enough.” It’s beneficial for people who don’t really understand how much extension they need to start out with more weight on their left side. Starting out with more weight on their left side eliminates the need for the hips to slide and allows the golfer to extend.

Some people think that sliding your hips causes a block. It does not. Extending or standing up too fast does. It throws the club to the right, and you end up blocking the shot. If you just slid and turned, the club would always come around in a circle. Coordinating those three things together (extension, left tilt, hip slide) to make the golfer swing in a circle is what the Stack and Tilt system is all about.

**mvmac** · April 5, 2011

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday

Maybe I’m getting old, but the move of sliding your hips forward (image on the right) has started to cause a pain in my left hip when executing the swing in this manner. Has anyone else had this problem? If so, what did you do the alleviate it?

Hips going forward is just something every great player does, you have to in order to move low point forward. Can't show me a great player that doesn't have the belt buckle move 4-6" forward. If you have pain, I would recommend making sure your squeezing your cheeks on the followthrough. Hips go forward and up, if they just go forward and the legs are still flexed, that could cause some strain. Clenching your bottom gets the hips to push forward and up.

***iacas*** · April 5, 2011

Originally Posted by NEOHMark

I don't know a whole lot about S&T...;

You should have stopped there. But thanks for trying to help - we appreciate it. I think you'll notice this forum is fairly heavily S&T; patrolled (sometimes too heavily even I'll admit), but when it comes to injury or pain just tread carefully, please.

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday

Maybe I’m getting old, but the move of sliding your hips forward (image on the right) has started to cause a pain in my left hip when executing the swing in this manner.

Got a video of your swing? Unless you've got a pre-existing injury (and those are rare in this area), you're likely doing this wrong. The golf swing is hard on your body. Properly done, S&T; is one of the easier methods on your body. Improperly done, any golf swing is going to be tough on you.

I'd love to see even a cell phone video of your swing, because feel isn't real and most likely you're doing something much differently than you think.

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

Going back to a swing that allowed for a weight shift and some hip turn on the back swing has totally alleviated the problem.

S&T; has:

a) a weight shift (your chest, stomach, arms, the club, etc. are all "in front of you" and move to the right on the backswing)

b) hip turn on the backswing (big part of the swing, so somewhat surprising you've listed this one in particular).

So, again, I'm not sure you were executing it properly if you've only recently started doing those things. Those things are a part of S&T; as well (you'll "feel" that the weight stays left partly because the right knee lessens flex and the left knee increases flex... legs feel more pressure when they're bent than straight).

Without video, again, kind of a tough question to answer. One I'd prefer not to answer except with the blanket "you probably weren't doing it properly." Not a cop-out... just that injuries and pain are serious so I don't want to give any tips or advice without knowing exactly what we're talking about.

But just as a little counter-argument... your weight needs to get to about 80/20 at impact in any swing - "conventional" or S&T.; So if you move more weight to your right side on the backswing you need to make a bigger lateral move to the left - some with your hips, some with your upper body as well - in a conventional swing than an S&T; swing.

Mike gave a good answer or two as well, so check those out.

**JerseyThursday** · April 5, 2011

Originally Posted by mvmac

Hips going forward is just something every great player does, you have to in order to move low point forward. Can't show me a great player that doesn't have the belt buckle move 4-6" forward. If you have pain, I would recommend making sure your squeezing your cheeks on the followthrough. Hips go forward and up, if they just go forward and the legs are still flexed, that could cause some strain. Clenching your bottom gets the hips to push forward and up.

Interesting.
Just so I understand, “hip slide” is the same thing as the avoided motion called “swaying” in a conventional swing?

**Zeph** · April 6, 2011

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday

Interesting.
Just so I understand, “hip slide” is the same thing as the avoided motion called “swaying” in a conventional swing?

If you search up swaying on Google, you'll find suggestions that swaying can also be moving the hips laterally forward on the downswing. I wouldn't call it swaying though, it's a sliding move, and perhaps more importantly one you want. Swaying is what I call upper body moving around or hips moving laterally backwards, away from the target. Excessive movement from some part of the body through the swing. Some pros move everything back and forward again, but it require a lot of timing, which is why S&T; suggest you keep the hips and upper centers still on the backswing.

In S&T;, the hips don't move laterally on the backswing, but slide forward on the downswing.

**NEOHMark** · April 6, 2011

Originally Posted by iacas

You should have stopped there.

Point taken.

**nevets88** · April 6, 2011

Originally Posted by mvmac

Hips going forward is just something every great player does, you have to in order to move low point forward. Can't show me a great player that doesn't have the belt buckle move 4-6" forward. If you have pain, I would recommend making sure your squeezing your cheeks on the followthrough. Hips go forward and up, if they just go forward and the legs are still flexed, that could cause some strain. Clenching your bottom gets the hips to push forward and up.

weight forward

shoulder down

hands in

clench tush

tuck hips

hands straight

I never heard that - I'll try it if I get the chance. I *won't" report back. TMI.

**Hollister** · April 6, 2011

Haha, had the same "muscular" experience, when was I was told to "feel the weight" in my front foot and "crush the can" with it. Took it too literally, thought I was going to need a hip replacement soon.

Next complaining body part would be the right elbow from P6 exercises...

**DannyG** · April 6, 2011

Since I got Analyzr I have looked at many pro swings. I haven't found one that does not have the hips forward of their starting point when they reach impact. The photo shows Adam Scott on the left and Luke Donald on the right, both at point of impact. The first red line is drawn from the hip at the beginning of the swing and the second line is at impact. In almost all cases the hip "slide" is the first move from the top of the backswing and in some cases starts just before before the completion of the backswing.

**JerseyThursday** · April 6, 2011

Originally Posted by DannyG

Since I got Analyzr I have looked at many pro swings. I haven't found one that does not have the hips forward of their starting point when they reach impact. The photo shows Adam Scott on the left and Luke Donald on the right, both at point of impact. The first red line is drawn from the hip at the beginning of the swing and the second line is at impact. In almost all cases the hip "slide" is the first move from the top of the backswing and in some cases starts just before before the completion of the backswing.

Understood. But in the images you show, its the left thigh that is leading the way. In the Stack & Tilt instruction image in my initial post he has the left hip out the most.

**Stretch** · April 6, 2011

Personally, and God knows I'm no model to emulate, I just think about getting my left knee outside my left ankle. This seems to get the lower body going laterally without any particular focus on the hip area. Here's my slide from address to impact.

**Elvisliveson** · April 6, 2011

S&T; has:

a) a weight shift (your chest, stomach, arms, the club, etc. are all "in front of you" and move to the right on the backswing)

Would you have felt better if if I said :shifting weight onto my rear foot" or "lower body weight shift to the right" Hard to believe you didn't understand what I meant by "weight shift" when talking about going to a non-stack and tilt swing.

***iacas*** · April 6, 2011

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday

Understood. But in the images you show, its the left thigh that is leading the way. In the Stack & Tilt instruction image in my initial post he has the left hip out the most.

Again, I can't say definitively, but my hunch is that "you're not doing it properly" is the answer here...

The picture shows a "feeling" for people, not what must actually occur in motion. It's a posed, static image. Here are a pair of pretty good swings. What do you see in these?

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

Would you have felt better if if I said :shifting weight onto my rear foot" or "lower body weight shift to the right" Hard to believe you didn't understand what I meant by "weight shift" when talking about going to a non-stack and tilt swing.

The problem is you're still saying the same thing. I'm telling you that because your chest, stomach, hands, etc. are in front of you and go to the right on the backswing, even an S&T; guy (Troy Matteson may be an exception because he slides his hips so far forwards on the back swing) "shifts his weight onto his rear foot."

Very, very, very few people shift their "lower body weight" to the right on the backswing. That would involve swaying your hips backwards (cuz if your knees go backwards, they're kinda connected to your legs, which are connected to your hips). Almost nobody shifts "lower body weight" to the right.

What people tend to mean when they talk about weight shift - what you seem to want to talk about - is swaying back with the upper body, which will put even MORE weight right than a centered pivot swing like S&T.; Again, why you'd want to do this is beyond me - I've yet to see anyone give a good reason why you'd want to sway (or "translate" or "move" your upper center backwards on the backswing) off the ball in the backswing. Low point control becomes more difficult, rotational speed decreases, etc. Virtually no good comes from this.

P.S. Two famous reverse hip sliders? Sergio Garcia, Colin Montgomerie. A third? Jason Zuback. Not many do it, and those that do don't do it much.

**boogielicious** · April 6, 2011

To the OP, try using a foam roller to loosen your IT band. See the link below. This part of our bodies naturally tightens as we age and the roller is by far the best way to keep it flexible.

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=9911

A tight IT band can cause a multitude of different injuries including stress on the knee. The foam roller is great for other muscles as well.

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Stack & Tilt hurts my left hip.

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