Vanity Golfer are Stupid People

**dereckbc** · November 1, 2012

I know it is harsh but true. Every course has regulars who are Vanity golfers and same goes for Country and Golf Clubs. Most know what a Vanity golfer is. If you do not know or are one please read on. A Vanity golfer is the opposite of a Sand Bagger. Both are cheats and liars. Sand Baggers gets called out by other members. No one calls out a Vanity golfer because they are Pigeons waiting to be plucked. A Vanity golfer, like a Sand Bagger, has a problem counting strokes during regular play at their course and turns in their score for Handicap. They seem to forget at each hole how many strokes they really took. Whent they shoot an 8 on a par 4, they record a 5 or 6. So by the end of the round they record something like a 88 instead of the 110 that they really shot and enter it into the Handicap scoring system. Everyone knows what they have done and never complain or say a thing. They end up with a Handicap like 16 when it should be 30 or 40. Now here is where the stupid part comes in. You enter a tournament or money game that is handicapped. Every time you end up at the bottom of the leader board because you are stupid, a liar, and a cheater. You are everyone's favorite pigeon to pluck. During a tournament you do not get to keep your score, your opponent keeps it and he knows you are a Vanity golfer and he counts your real strokes. Instead of you shooting your average of say 88 with a 16 handicap to post a 72 net, you shoot 120 for a 104 net and so far on the bottom of the leader board you do not even exist. You just lost all your money with no chance to win you Pigeon. You have been plucked. OK the only reason I bring this up is today at the course one of our Vanity golfers ask me to give him lessons. He stated he wanted to do so because because he could not ever score well in a tournament. I snickered at him and declined. He then asked why so I told him" " I said you are a Liar and a Cheater, and no amount of lessons is going to improve your tournament play. You will never be able to win or place being a Vanity golfer " His reply was: " everyone does it, why are you singling me out ?" I said: " because I cannot fix Stupid. You do not know the difference between a Sand Bagger and a Vanity Golfer ". That is where our conversation ended. I will let someone else explain the difference to him, but I have doubts he will understand the math. :-)

**SloverUT** · November 1, 2012

I can certainly understand your frustration and agree that those types suck. But I hope you didn't say it exactly as you did. If he was asking you for lessons he obviously considers you a decent person and respects your game. I think you could have come up with a better way to decline than to call him a liar.

But that is just me, I prefer to be tactful in any scenario.

***iacas*** · November 1, 2012

Originally Posted by dereckbc

OK the only reason I bring this up is today at the course one of our Vanity golfers ask me to give him lessons. He stated he wanted to do so because because he could not ever score well in a tournament. I snickered at him and declined. He then asked why so I told him"
"I said you are a Liar and a Cheater, and no amount of lessons is going to improve your tournament play. You will never be able to win or place being a Vanity golfer"
His reply was: "everyone does it, why are you singling me out?"
I said: "because I cannot fix Stupid. You do not know the difference between a Sand Bagger and a Vanity Golfer".
That is where our conversation ended. I will let someone else explain the difference to him, but I have doubts he will understand the math.

Second post I've read from you in five or ten minutes that makes me scratch my head and wonder just what in the hell you're talking about, and re-affirms my belief in the kind of instructor I am and will continue to be.

**Audaxi** · November 1, 2012

I personally think that Iacas just can be frustrated when people misrepresent facts. I haven't ever seen him truely flame, at least on matters concerning opinion. However, I do think the OP was a little overboard. You could have just told him some "scoring tips" and tell him to stop lowballing himself for his handicap, and possibly have made a couple of dollars on lessons if you are a professional (amateurs can't accept money for lessons). I see no reason to laugh at him, all he wanted with his handicap was to be respected a little more than a 30 capper might be when he steps up to the tee. Also, how are you sure it isn't honestly a pressure deal? I know that I started playing in tournaments when I had a 24 handicap (mostly to get experience) and I shot 108-116 in my first tournament. The next tournament I played in was a 3 day 9-hole deal, where I shot 51-47-49 on average difficulty courses. It takes a bit of time to get your tournament scores lower, and they will inherently be higher than your handicap more often than not (not counting sandbaggers) due to the pressures of tournament play. If someone wants to genuinely improve, why would you shut them down that harshly?

**AmazingWhacker** · November 1, 2012

Originally Posted by dereckbc

I know it is harsh but true. Every course has regulars who are Vanity golfers and same goes for Country and Golf Clubs. Most know what a Vanity golfer is. If you do not know or are one please read on.
A Vanity golfer is the opposite of a Sand Bagger. Both are cheats and liars. Sand Baggers gets called out by other members. No one calls out a Vanity golfer because they are Pigeons waiting to be plucked. A Vanity golfer, like a Sand Bagger, has a problem counting strokes during regular play at their course and turns in their score for Handicap. They seem to forget at each hole how many strokes they really took. Whent they shoot an 8 on a par 4, they record a 5 or 6. So by the end of the round they record something like a 88 instead of the 110 that they really shot and enter it into the Handicap scoring system. Everyone knows what they have done and never complain or say a thing. They end up with a Handicap like 16 when it should be 30 or 40.
Now here is where the stupid part comes in. You enter a tournament or money game that is handicapped. Every time you end up at the bottom of the leader board because you are stupid, a liar, and a cheater. You are everyone's favorite pigeon to pluck. During a tournament you do not get to keep your score, your opponent keeps it and he knows you are a Vanity golfer and he counts your real strokes. Instead of you shooting your average of say 88 with a 16 handicap to post a 72 net, you shoot 120 for a 104 net and so far on the bottom of the leader board you do not even exist. You just lost all your money with no chance to win you Pigeon. You have been plucked.
OK the only reason I bring this up is today at the course one of our Vanity golfers ask me to give him lessons. He stated he wanted to do so because because he could not ever score well in a tournament. I snickered at him and declined. He then asked why so I told him"
"I said you are a Liar and a Cheater, and no amount of lessons is going to improve your tournament play. You will never be able to win or place being a Vanity golfer"
His reply was: "everyone does it, why are you singling me out?"
I said: "because I cannot fix Stupid. You do not know the difference between a Sand Bagger and a Vanity Golfer".
That is where our conversation ended. I will let someone else explain the difference to him, but I have doubts he will understand the math.

That's actually not true - even if he lies about his score he could still improve with lessons. Maybe he's trying to get as good as he is pretending to be before anybody catches on.

**dereckbc** · November 1, 2012

I can certainly understand your frustration and agree that those types suck. But I hope you didn't say it exactly as you did.

No I did not say it like that, I just politely declined and said it would help if if turned in truthful scores. I have known this man for some 20 years, and he has been playing over 30 years. He is in his late 50's and unteachable. I will not take peoples money I cannot help. I don't instruct to make a living. I am already retired.

**Golfingdad** · November 1, 2012

I don't understand why his being a vanity capper makes him unteachable. How are those two related at all? He's either going to get better so he can actually shoot that 88 legitimately or continue to vanity cap it up and convert his 88 into a 79. If he can't improve that has nothing to do with his score keeping. I don't understand why a teacher would be so reluctant to try and teach.

**dereckbc** · November 2, 2012

I don't understand why his being a vanity capper makes him unteachable.

The man has been playing golf for over 30 years and has had countless lessons. The key for him to be able compete in any type of tournament is an honest handicap. That is the point of the whole thread. A Vanity Golfer is only fooling and hurting themselves. That is why no one bothers to call them on turning in a inaccurate score card. The poor guy thinks he is a Sand Bagger As for myself I will not take someones money unless I think I can help them and earn what I am paid to do.

***iacas*** · November 2, 2012

Originally Posted by dereckbc

As for myself I will not take someones money unless I think I can help them and earn what I am paid to do.

I feel the same, but apparently you can't help old people in less than six lessons or people who think they are better than they are.

I've turned away one lesson and it was because the guy was absolutely rude to me, James, the other people on the range, golfers in general, poor people (i.e. anyone whose parents aren't both doctors), and so on.

**Clambake** · November 2, 2012

Originally Posted by dereckbc
I snickered at him and declined. He then asked why so I told him"
"I said you are a Liar and a Cheater, and no amount of lessons is going to improve your tournament play. You will never be able to win or place being a Vanity golfer"
His reply was: "everyone does it, why are you singling me out?"
I said: "because I cannot fix Stupid. You do not know the difference between a Sand Bagger and a Vanity Golfer".
That is where our conversation ended.

I suspect that after that conversation he was far more happy about not working together than you were.

**dereckbc** · November 2, 2012

I feel the same, but apparently you can't help old people in less than six lessons or people who think they are better than they are.

OK I take it then you will take someones money when you know full well they will not take your advice or take the medicine. As long as you get paid, you are OK with it right? Like I said I do not do this for a living. I do it for the pure joy of it and even coach a High School team for free, and volunteer at my local First Tee Program. I do more for free than I do for hire.

**phillyk** · November 2, 2012

Originally Posted by dereckbc

OK I take it then you will take someones money when you know full well they will not take your advice or take the medicine. As long as you get paid, you are OK with it right?

I think instructors teach under the assumption that their help will improve a golfers ability to play well. The first lesson is always the one where the instructor and golfer learn about each other and decide whether they can work well together. Sometimes, it is a bad match, but the golfer thinks it will work and sometimes it doesn't. Point is, taking lessons is a good thing, but you have to find the right person to truly learn. Sometimes people don't "take the medicine" because they believe this "teacher" is completely nuts or they just didn't socially click. So, you teach anybody really until you realize that it is not working all together.

**GaijinGolfer** · November 2, 2012

Originally Posted by dereckbc

I know it is harsh but true. Every course has regulars who are Vanity golfers and same goes for Country and Golf Clubs. Most know what a Vanity golfer is. If you do not know or are one please read on.
A Vanity golfer is the opposite of a Sand Bagger. Both are cheats and liars. Sand Baggers gets called out by other members. No one calls out a Vanity golfer because they are Pigeons waiting to be plucked. A Vanity golfer, like a Sand Bagger, has a problem counting strokes during regular play at their course and turns in their score for Handicap. They seem to forget at each hole how many strokes they really took. Whent they shoot an 8 on a par 4, they record a 5 or 6. So by the end of the round they record something like a 88 instead of the 110 that they really shot and enter it into the Handicap scoring system. Everyone knows what they have done and never complain or say a thing. They end up with a Handicap like 16 when it should be 30 or 40.
Now here is where the stupid part comes in. You enter a tournament or money game that is handicapped. Every time you end up at the bottom of the leader board because you are stupid, a liar, and a cheater. You are everyone's favorite pigeon to pluck. During a tournament you do not get to keep your score, your opponent keeps it and he knows you are a Vanity golfer and he counts your real strokes. Instead of you shooting your average of say 88 with a 16 handicap to post a 72 net, you shoot 120 for a 104 net and so far on the bottom of the leader board you do not even exist. You just lost all your money with no chance to win you Pigeon. You have been plucked.
OK the only reason I bring this up is today at the course one of our Vanity golfers ask me to give him lessons. He stated he wanted to do so because because he could not ever score well in a tournament. I snickered at him and declined. He then asked why so I told him"
"I said you are a Liar and a Cheater, and no amount of lessons is going to improve your tournament play. You will never be able to win or place being a Vanity golfer"
His reply was: "everyone does it, why are you singling me out?"
I said: "because I cannot fix Stupid. You do not know the difference between a Sand Bagger and a Vanity Golfer".
That is where our conversation ended. I will let someone else explain the difference to him, but I have doubts he will understand the math.

IMO, you were a little harsh. Based upon your attitude in this thread, I dont think Id want you to be my teacher. People want a teacher who is going to help them get better, not one who is going to snicker at them, insult them and then tell them they suck and theres no hope.

**Kujan** · November 2, 2012

I hear what DERECKBC is saying here. The guy who spoke to him about needing lessons is a vanity golfer. One who lies about his score to inflate his handicap. Of course in a tournament where someone else is keeping score he never plays to his handicap. The guy has the nerve to say he only plays poorly in tournaments. Who would not be irritated with someone like that?

**dak4n6** · November 2, 2012

I don't understand the OP's rage for golfers with vanity caps. Let them live in their own little fantasies and get stomped in tournaments. They don't really bother or affect anyone. Why the need to go after them with guns blazing??

Baggers, on the other hand, are a menace because they really affect the outcomes of tournaments.

**Dave2512** · November 2, 2012

People play for different reasons. I get paired with folks that get pretty creative. It doesn't bother me. I'm out there to enjoy myself and concentrate on my game. The only time I take issue with anyone on the course is if they are slowing things down.

**phan52** · November 2, 2012

Originally Posted by dereckbc

OK I take it then you will take someones money when you know full well they will not take your advice or take the medicine. As long as you get paid, you are OK with it right?
Like I said I do not do this for a living. I do it for the pure joy of it and even coach a High School team for free, and volunteer at my local First Tee Program. I do more for free than I do for hire.

I realy don't see where a teacher is responsible for the student's inability or reluctance to take the advice. The guy asked, the advice is for what it's worth, and that is up to the student.

**BuckeyeNut** · November 2, 2012

Originally Posted by dereckbc

I know it is harsh but true. Every course has regulars who are Vanity golfers and same goes for Country and Golf Clubs. Most know what a Vanity golfer is. If you do not know or are one please read on.
A Vanity golfer is the opposite of a Sand Bagger. Both are cheats and liars. Sand Baggers gets called out by other members. No one calls out a Vanity golfer because they are Pigeons waiting to be plucked. A Vanity golfer, like a Sand Bagger, has a problem counting strokes during regular play at their course and turns in their score for Handicap. They seem to forget at each hole how many strokes they really took. Whent they shoot an 8 on a par 4, they record a 5 or 6. So by the end of the round they record something like a 88 instead of the 110 that they really shot and enter it into the Handicap scoring system. Everyone knows what they have done and never complain or say a thing. They end up with a Handicap like 16 when it should be 30 or 40.
Now here is where the stupid part comes in. You enter a tournament or money game that is handicapped. Every time you end up at the bottom of the leader board because you are stupid, a liar, and a cheater. You are everyone's favorite pigeon to pluck. During a tournament you do not get to keep your score, your opponent keeps it and he knows you are a Vanity golfer and he counts your real strokes. Instead of you shooting your average of say 88 with a 16 handicap to post a 72 net, you shoot 120 for a 104 net and so far on the bottom of the leader board you do not even exist. You just lost all your money with no chance to win you Pigeon. You have been plucked.
OK the only reason I bring this up is today at the course one of our Vanity golfers ask me to give him lessons. He stated he wanted to do so because because he could not ever score well in a tournament. I snickered at him and declined. He then asked why so I told him"
"I said you are a Liar and a Cheater, and no amount of lessons is going to improve your tournament play. You will never be able to win or place being a Vanity golfer"
His reply was: "everyone does it, why are you singling me out?"
I said: "because I cannot fix Stupid. You do not know the difference between a Sand Bagger and a Vanity Golfer".
That is where our conversation ended. I will let someone else explain the difference to him, but I have doubts he will understand the math.

LOL......why are you so bitter?

I personally like playing against vanity players because it's easy money. So long as you don't choose that player as a partner in the next "member-member" , they aren't causing you any harm.....why all the hate? It makes no sense to me........

If he is requesting your services to sharpen his tourney play, offer to play him for "X" amount per hole to give him some practice. LOL

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