President Obama's Golf Weekend: Off Topic Political Bullshit

Quote:

Originally Posted by stogiesnbogies 

Does Bush also regret starting unecessary wars...and putting them on the nations credit card?

 

Does he regret such wreckless and irresponsible behavior and leaving it all to be mopped up by President Obama?

 

One would certainly hope so....since he took Clinton's  budget surplus and turned it into a massive deficit and economic crisis which Obama has begun mopping up- setting the ship aright.

You do realize that shortly after Bush took over, there was a recession that was caused by Clinton era policies?  And by his aggressive tax cuts and policies, he pulled us out of it pretty quickly.  I guess no one remembers that, since it's convenient to forget.  And Clinton didn't actually have a budget surplus, he did what others have done and moved discretionary money around to make it appear that there was, but we were still racking up a national debt during that time, just nowhere as large as we are now.  At least a part of the current melt-down was caused by Clinton era policies put in place.... ie Fanny May and Freddie Mac and pushing lending institutions to made risky home lones that came crashing down just a few years ago, and are still a big problem in my area. 

Look, I'm no Bush fan at all.  I lost a lot of friends during my time in the Army before I was wounded and retired myself for no apparent reason and the Patriot Act was the largest Unconstitutional policy since the 1940's.  But this 6 years later, blame Bush crap is getting a little old.  While this started when Bush was in office, it could have been over for a long time now, given the proper policies and a more "hands-off" approach by Government toward big business.  Obama won't even come out and say that the Sequester was his plan and idea at all now.  All he wants to do is put police and fire personnel behind him and say they're going to lose their jobs when the fact is that 98% of police and fire are paid by local and state governments.  

If they can't make a 7% cut in discretionary spending without it being this massive overhaul that they say will hurt everyone, they need to go back to a simple budgeting class.  I've loss more than 7% this year to my income because of health spending and tax increases, so I don't feel bad for any of them.  They've had 18 months to figure this out, but it wasn't important to them.  

The ship is nowhere near upright.  If anything it's being torn in two by separate entities who have two visions for America....... One, the wrong vision, which is leading to the path of Austerity measures because of rampant uncontrolled spending, and the other that doesn't want to get involved because they're not popular and really don't seem to have a clear cut vision of the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339 

You do realize that shortly after Bush took over, there was a recession that was caused by Clinton era policies?  And by his aggressive tax cuts and policies, he pulled us out of it pretty quickly.  I guess no one remembers that, since it's convenient to forget.  And Clinton didn't actually have a budget surplus, he did what others have done and moved discretionary money around to make it appear that there was, but we were still racking up a national debt during that time, just nowhere as large as we are now.  At least a part of the current melt-down was caused by Clinton era policies put in place.... ie Fanny May and Freddie Mac and pushing lending institutions to made risky home lones that came crashing down just a few years ago, and are still a big problem in my area. 

 

Look, I'm no Bush fan at all.  I lost a lot of friends during my time in the Army before I was wounded and retired myself for no apparent reason and the Patriot Act was the largest Unconstitutional policy since the 1940's.  But this 6 years later, blame Bush crap is getting a little old.  While this started when Bush was in office, it could have been over for a long time now, given the proper policies and a more "hands-off" approach by Government toward big business.  Obama won't even come out and say that the Sequester was his plan and idea at all now.  All he wants to do is put police and fire personnel behind him and say they're going to lose their jobs when the fact is that 98% of police and fire are paid by local and state governments.  

 

If they can't make a 7% cut in discretionary spending without it being this massive overhaul that they say will hurt everyone, they need to go back to a simple budgeting class.  I've loss more than 7% this year to my income because of health spending and tax increases, so I don't feel bad for any of them.  They've had 18 months to figure this out, but it wasn't important to them.  

 

The ship is nowhere near upright.  If anything it's being torn in two by separate entities who have two visions for America....... One, the wrong vision, which is leading to the path of Austerity measures because of rampant uncontrolled spending, and the other that doesn't want to get involved because they're not popular and really don't seem to have a clear cut vision of the future.

Well, I thought we were supposed to refrain from politics in this thread.

Look, most know that tax cuts work for a couple of years to raise revenue by a larger percentage and then revenue as a percentage decreases

Clinton's surplus was measured relevant to all other Presidential budgets - so don't try your own voodoo economics.

After Bush's tax cuts, he was clueless as to what to do with the economy - as a last resort, you got $600 back and Bush hoped you'd spend it - that was his stimulus. Meanwhile, housing was starting to burst and they had no answers.

The economic deregulation begun under Clinton caused a collapse of the markets because Bush would not fund regulators. He believed in the free market, not realizing that big business and Wall Street only cared about themselves, and didn't mind filling their pockets with cash to help pull down a nation.

Recent books have revealed that Bush and Cheney "lied" us into Iraq. We now have over 4k dead and 36k wounded (from memory) in that conflict. Many will suffer their wounds with the resulting VA costs for the rest of their lives. Others will be wounded mentally for the remainder of their lives (PTSD) along with their families. My bet is Bush and Cheney did not even think about that...

I suggest we all cut the anti-Obama Rhetoric and work together, unlike the GOP - the GOP House was elected in 2010 to create jobs and did less than any other Congress for at least 70 years. Congress passes laws, not the President. He signs or vetoes them, and can be overridden. This new House is do nothing, too. They call the GOP the "stupid party." Even they call themselves "stupid." Believe it.

While I don't care for Obama that much, I care a helluva lot less for the GOP and its failure to govern or participate in government.

It's cute that you guys think there's a difference between the two parties.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

It's cute that you guys think there's a difference between the two parties.

It's cuter that you can't discern the differences.

We tend to lay all blame on the President with regards to budget, deficit, taxes, etc.  However, it is Congress who has the responsibility and power for taxes and revenue, not the President.  Article 1, Sections 7 and 8.  The President only can approve what is presented by Congress.  The President can propose a budget, but the bill must originate in the House.

http://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/constitution/

Congress has created these issues over the last three administrations, both Democrat and Republican.

Back on topic.  I wonder if Tiger gave any tips to the President like, "When throwing a club in anger, keep your left wrist flat and don't over rotate."

Quote:

Originally Posted by stogiesnbogies 

You are still drinking the GOP austerity koolaid mate...the very same policies that are burying England and other foolish Euro nations who fail to understand the simple Keynesian economic commandment: Thou shalt NOT cut government spending in the midst of a recession or its fragile recovery. You can NOT simply CUt your way back to prosperity.  The fastest time tested approach to economic recovery is Government investment in shovel ready and badly needed infrastructure projects which places cash in the hands of the true job creators -working people who create consumer demand....tax cuts for the rich is a tried and true abject failure as study after study as well as cold hard reality demonstrate.....yes it's counterintuitive -which is why Nobel prize winning economists have long advocated this approach...like Paul Krugman at Princeton and Joseph Stiglitz at Columbia.....Obama has tried repeatedly to follow this approach which the great FDR used to get us out of the last GOP-created Crash of '29/Great Depression but to no avail as the obstructionist GOP House refuses to even bring the American Jobs Act to the floor....the answer is becoming increasingly more clear for working Americans ...deal with the gridlock until '14 and flip the House to the Dems....with all 3 branches returned to adult supervision we can rapidly employ the Keynesian policies which have proven effective in cleaning up past GOP messes....btw Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had little to NOTHING to do with the GOP deregulation of banking which led to the derivative, bundling and other Wall Street bankster ponzi schemes.....that, my friend is a laughable GOP lie since Barney Frank and company could not possibly have influenced a GOP run congress to such an extent-its a blatant lie and indeed has racist and classist overtones as the Repubs want to blame poor people and minorities for what their policies rendered......we know what needs to be done and the American people stand ready to oust the GOP obstructionists and get back on the road to full recovery.....the Democratic Party has been cleaning up Republican messes since 1933.  Just watch how this latest GOP hostage taking with the sequester backfires on the Repubs as they will rightfully get the blame for shutting down essential programs .....which will basically seal their electoral fate come 2014.

You are truly delusional, and it all makes sense now.  You're a walking/typing Progessive billboard.  And by the way, I'm not a Republican, as a Progressive, you'll love the fact that I am a Libertarian Constitutionalist and in that I hate both parties equally, but you just went on the typical full Progessive attack mode, quoting everything from the Progressive stance in almost one shot.  And you brought up racism and that the GOP hates poor people.  Good job.  Sal Alinsky would be proud of you.

Keysnesian Economics?  Seriously?  Yes, it's the basis of Macroeconomics, but in Macroeconomics you also learn that Government spending can push out spending by the Private Market because less is available in the market for Private Borrowing.  Sound familiar?  Keysnesian Economics only works in a totalitarian government.  If it worked, we'd be already out of this recession with the two huge Stimulus bills that did absolutely nothing.  If your Keysnesian Economics was so sound, why hasn't the Trillions that the Government pumped into the economy in the past 6 years made a dent?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond 

 

Clinton's surplus was measured relevant to all other Presidential budgets - so don't try your own voodoo economics.

 

My VooDoo economics?  

Surplus in it's definition indicates that there was more revenue than expenditures.  That did not happen, we still spent more than we took in as a nation, so who's really guilty of VooDoo economics?  Wow........  We still had a $17.91 billion deficit.  

Twisting the wording around doesn't account for the facts, even though I do believe Clinton and his Republican Congress worked well together and we were soooooo close to where we needed to be on spending.  Too bad it's just ballooned out of control since then, and even the people who called Bush "UnPatriotic" for running up so much debt now have no problem with the debt being added at a substantially higher rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339 

My VooDoo economics?  

 

Surplus in it's definition indicates that there was more revenue than expenditures.  That did not happen, we still spent more than we took in as a nation, so who's really guilty of VooDoo economics?  Wow........  We still had a $17.91 billion deficit.  

 

Twisting the wording around doesn't account for the facts, even though I do believe Clinton and his Republican Congress worked well together and we were soooooo close to where we needed to be on spending.  Too bad it's just ballooned out of control since then, and even the people who called Bush "UnPatriotic" for running up so much debt now have no problem with the debt being added at a substantially higher rate.

Ahhhhh, there's where you're going wrong.  You can't use normally understood definitions when dealing with liberals.  They redefine words or phrases to suit themselves and to persuade others who mistakenly believe that words mean the same thing to everyone.   It works too, because unfortunately there are too many people out there that are incapable of critical thought for themselves and simply accept what they hear on TV.......usually between episodes of Entertainment Tonight, Judge Judy, and Dr Phil.

I know...... 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

It's cute that you guys think there's a difference between the two parties.

It's cuter that you can't discern the differences.

Two different names, same goal to perpetuate dependence on government and self preservation of  their egos. I am sorry but our country needs to overthrow the current government. It is only a matter of time before we hit rock bottom.Self importance by having differing opinions causing a false sense of "fighting" for a their important cause sapping the country of resources...

We don't have many rules here, but when we say "no more politics in this thread" we mean it. You've all been docked five skins. You could have easily started a thread here in this forum, but instead, chose to ignore the request and continued to post in the original thread in Golf Talk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339 

My VooDoo economics?  

 

Surplus in it's definition indicates that there was more revenue than expenditures.  That did not happen, we still spent more than we took in as a nation, so who's really guilty of VooDoo economics?  Wow........  We still had a $17.91 billion deficit.  

 

Twisting the wording around doesn't account for the facts, even though I do believe Clinton and his Republican Congress worked well together and we were soooooo close to where we needed to be on spending.  Too bad it's just ballooned out of control since then, and even the people who called Bush "UnPatriotic" for running up so much debt now have no problem with the debt being added at a substantially higher rate.

I think its because Bush caused Hurricane Katrina...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

It's cute that you guys think there's a difference between the two parties.

It's cuter that you can't discern the differences.

Two different names, same goal to perpetuate dependence on government and self preservation of  their egos. I am sorry but our country needs to overthrow the current government. It is only a matter of time before we hit rock bottom.Self importance by having differing opinions causing a false sense of "fighting" for a their important cause sapping the country of resources...

Yep, Valleygolfer gets it.

Today's political leaders on both sides have figured out that they can keep taxing us and spending our money with no accountability. Policies will always be controlled by whoever can throw the most money at the policy makers. It's no coincidence that 7 of the 10 most affluent counties in the nation are in the DC area - it's because government has become the most profitable business there is. The president doesn't have the power to change that system even if he wanted to.

You may think voting for president gives you a voice in what happens, but it's really just the appearance of having a voice.  It's the perfect system for those in power: As long as the people *think* they have some control over the course this country takes - as long as they *think* there really is a difference between dems and reps once they're in office - then they're happy to simply vote for the party they identify with based on the stereotypes that party advertises. It gives meaning to people when they think there are battle lines drawn, and that their side is the "good" side. They think, "We just have to bide our time and keep trying to get our side elected - then things will be better!"

But short of violent revolution (which I'm not advocating, ok FBI spybots?), I can't see anything changing until this country collapses under its own debt and mismanagement. The bailout a few years ago only postponed the inevitable: either hyperinflation or massive default.  One of those is going to happen regardless of who's in the white house - there's too much inertia for any other outcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas 

We don't have many rules here, but when we say "no more politics in this thread" we mean it. You've all been docked five skins. You could have easily started a thread here in this forum, but instead, chose to ignore the request and continued to post in the original thread in Golf Talk.

You're right Erik - sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas 

We don't have many rules here, but when we say "no more politics in this thread" we mean it. You've all been docked five skins. You could have easily started a thread here in this forum, but instead, chose to ignore the request and continued to post in the original thread in Golf Talk.

Yes, but I did notice that in the original thread, the political sniping continued after post 31, where you asked that political talk cease. When it continues or the thread is not edited or locked, the posters assume the gloves are off again or they missed your point about ceasing political talk because it continued further in the thread.

Of course, I defer to your judgment, and you have spoken ... decisively.

This is much ado about nothing.

The empty suit of a campaigner and the guy who might look like his son did not solver world hunger, did not stop global warming and neither one walked on water as far as I know.

All that occurred was the campaigner in chief wasted another million of the tax payers money so he could go chill with his choom gang and play a round of golf with his peeps.

Why everyone has their panties in a bunch thinking this is a great thing baffles me, and as much as the story in and of itself sickens me, this is really a nothing story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stogiesnbogies 

You are still drinking the GOP austerity koolaid mate...the very same policies that are burying England and other foolish Euro nations who fail to understand the simple Keynesian economic commandment: Thou shalt NOT cut government spending in the midst of a recession or its fragile recovery. You can NOT simply CUt your way back to prosperity.  The fastest time tested approach to economic recovery is Government investment in shovel ready and badly needed infrastructure projects which places cash in the hands of the true job creators -working people who create consumer demand....tax cuts for the rich is a tried and true abject failure as study after study as well as cold hard reality demonstrate.....yes it's counterintuitive -which is why Nobel prize winning economists have long advocated this approach...like Paul Krugman at Princeton and Joseph Stiglitz at Columbia.....Obama has tried repeatedly to follow this approach which the great FDR used to get us out of the last GOP-created Crash of '29/Great Depression but to no avail as the obstructionist GOP House refuses to even bring the American Jobs Act to the floor....the answer is becoming increasingly more clear for working Americans ...deal with the gridlock until '14 and flip the House to the Dems....with all 3 branches returned to adult supervision we can rapidly employ the Keynesian policies which have proven effective in cleaning up past GOP messes....btw Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had little to NOTHING to do with the GOP deregulation of banking which led to the derivative, bundling and other Wall Street bankster ponzi schemes.....that, my friend is a laughable GOP lie since Barney Frank and company could not possibly have influenced a GOP run congress to such an extent-its a blatant lie and indeed has racist and classist overtones as the Repubs want to blame poor people and minorities for what their policies rendered......we know what needs to be done and the American people stand ready to oust the GOP obstructionists and get back on the road to full recovery.....the Democratic Party has been cleaning up Republican messes since 1933.  Just watch how this latest GOP hostage taking with the sequester backfires on the Repubs as they will rightfully get the blame for shutting down essential programs .....which will basically seal their electoral fate come 2014.

I have to agree with you there Stogies, In Australia we spent big dollars on education, a broadband network and other schemes, and the proof of the pudding's in the eating. We've got 5.2% unemployment, good growth, bugger all debt etcetc

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

It's cute that you guys think there's a difference between the two parties.

This.