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One hop and stop pitches

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

Always tried to hit these by playing the ball back, hands forward, and by hit down at a sharp angle and taking a divot (whether it's a chip from a couple yards off the green or a 20-70 yard pitch).   Not much problem making consistent contact, but the stupid ball always, ALWAYS released with very minimal check.  

 

Was working on this at the range to today and decided to try hitting pitches by open the face just a tad and without taking much of a divot.  If anything just bruising the grass under and slightly in front of the ball.  Lo and behold, almost every shot (accept the ones I skulled across the green hit, checked up and rolled out nice and gentle.  I've always been under the impression that the amount of spin need for the ball to hop and stop requires a severe downward strike which means taking a bunch of turf.  

 

Anyone have any idea or thoughts on why a cleaning "pick" of the ball seems to put a lot more backspin on the ball than sharp downward strike?

post #2 of 21
Shallower AoA combined with striking the ball well below the equator creating more spin?

Just a guess. Interested to hear from more knowledgable posters.
post #3 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post

Shallower AoA combined with striking the ball well below the equator creating more spin?

Just a guess. Interested to hear from more knowledgable posters.

 

This.  I think I heard somewhere that you maximize spin with a club that impacts the ball with around 45 degrees loft, which would support the above.  

post #4 of 21
So sound did you change your set up (back in stance) or was it the same just a different swing.
post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

So sound did you change your set up (back in stance) or was it the same just a different swing.

 

Who are you asking?

post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher View Post
 

 

This.  I think I heard somewhere that you maximize spin with a club that impacts the ball with around 45 degrees loft, which would support the above.  

 

Yea that's what is being thrown around now. I am not sure if people have figured out why. I would guess it has more to do with the center of mass of the golf club, and the fact that more than 45 degrees just causes such an oblique strike its not solid. 

post #7 of 21
Anyone who can hit that shot ha. Ive wanted to know how ro hit that chip for about 13 years.
post #8 of 21

Wouldn't setting your hands forward and the ball back set you up for a running chip shot? I always thought delofting your clubs reduces spin (think 9i vs 3i).

post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

Yea that's what is being thrown around now. I am not sure if people have figured out why. I would guess it has more to do with the center of mass of the golf club, and the fact that more than 45 degrees just causes such an oblique strike its not solid. 

And with less loft the strike is possibly too close to center.
post #10 of 21
So cipher can you hit the hop and stop shot? If so how?
post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

So sound did you change your set up (back in stance) or was it the same just a different swing.

 

Maybe just a tad forward.  Previously I'd played the ball even with my right big toe; probably moved it an inch forward.  Little less shaft lean forward (but definitely still some). The biggest difference was definitely: (a) opening the face on my 54*.  Not wide open or anything.  Just a bit. and; (b) the angle of attack. Instead of coming in at a steep angle aiming to hit ball then a bunch of turf with the leading edge of the face, I aimed at to hit the ground with the sole (or bounce I guess) and essentially pick it clean.  

 

Of course, let everything I could go back tomorrow and skull every shot across the green.  One reason I always aimed to take turf with the leading edge is that it's super simple to make consistent contact.  This new method clearly produces much better results, but seems to require a bit more precision.  

post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

So cipher can you hit the hop and stop shot? If so how?

Not really since switching to conforming groves. It is pretty much like S&F says in the first post. I pretty much play soft pitches that release a bit. A hop and stop may look cooler but it is not as likely to go in the hole and is less forgiving.
post #13 of 21
Thread Starter 

Sorry, I should clarify: I definitely am referring to a pitch that gets some release.  To be more descriptive, the shot I'm talking about hits, hops once, decelerates significantly upon landing, and slowing rolls out.  This is in contrast to my prior shots that landed, hopped, and then continued rolling at the same pace.  

 

A shot that actually stops after the first hop is figment of the imagination (for me).  Also seems like such a shot would be great when short sided, but otherwise would probably require amazing distance control to fly right at the hole.  

post #14 of 21

If you are interested, check out Dave Stockton's Unconscious Scoring.  My review is below.  His pitch technique is very similar to The famous Quickie Pitching Video that Erik and Dave posted on this site.  http://thesandtrap.com/t/39411/quickie-pitching-video.  Stockton describes the pitch as a right hand controlled shot and the chip (what you were trying before) as a left hand controlled shot.  When I used that swing thought, the chip became much easier to execute.  When I use my 58 wedge, the chips will check up quickly.  With a 54 or 50, the chip does roll out more.  I use the 58 only for pitches.

 

http://thesandtrap.com/products/dave-stockton-unconscious-scoring-dave-stocktons-guide-to-saving-shots-around-the-green/reviews/4778

 

Stan Utley also has good technique descriptions in The Art of the Short Game.  Utley differs from Stockton a bit in the set up, but the rest of the technique is very similar, as it the thought process.

 

http://thesandtrap.com/products/the-art-of-the-short-game-tour-tested-secrets

post #15 of 21
When I'm inside 30 yards I use erik's quickie pitch I love it and am very confident with it. I would like the one hop and stop shot for between 40-80 yards. I know the situation dictates the shot but it would be perfect for 40-80 when the fairway runs onto the green.
post #16 of 21

If the clubface is open when the ball is struck, don't you think that the ball also gets some sidespin going?  In addition to the backwards rotation? And if the ball is struck with the slow moving club the rotation will be slight and the side spin greater, hence more side spinning when hitting the green.  More spinning, of any direction, will check the roll. Some UTube video (who??) recommends that to run out more and straighter on a chip shot, close the face a bit, never open.  The real experts around the green must use many techniques of ball position, club selection, open/close face, AoA, etc to achieve 80% up/down. 

Does anyone get better than 80% up and down?  I can hardly two putt 80% of the time.

post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post

  Some UTube video (who??) recommends that to run out more and straighter on a chip shot, close the face a bit, never open.  The real experts around the green must use many techniques of ball position, club selection, open/close face, AoA, etc to achieve 80% up/down. 
Does anyone get better than 80% up and down?  I can hardly two putt 80% of the time.

That's because a closed face is delofted so, yeah more roll out.
post #18 of 21
Yeah I've toyed with this for sometime now and what works for me wether it's right or wrong is, choke down, play the ball forward in stance, shallow angle of attack, small back swing , full through swing! It works!
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