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Brand New Technology vs Older Equipment


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I'm just wondering how the golfers on this website feel about upgrading their clubs on a consistent basis versus using older technology.

Personally, I don't feel that the newer irons are significantly better than the 2002 Ping i3+ irons that I currently play.  I still play a Ping Eye 2+ BeCu lob wedge from 1990, and can't believe that the newer wedges would be any better. Golf companies continually market new clubs to sell, but they haven't convinced me that the newer irons perform better than the older models.

On the other hand, when it comes to drivers and fairway woods, I have found that upgrading to more current equipment has benefited my game. I have the TM R11 and Rocketballz drivers that have allowed me to hit more fairways and have instilled more confidence off of the tee. (And, we all know that golf is partly mental.) The TM Rocketballz 3 wood and hybrid have also added distance and accuracy from my older clubs. However, I still periodically carry an old TM Raylor from the 1990's when I know that the rough is a little longer than I like.

Finally, when it comes to the putter, I think we can all agree that Karsten Solheim revolutionized the game back in the 1960's with his numerous designs.  From Wikipedia, "Acceptance [of Solheim's technology] came when Julius Boros won the PGA Tour's Phoenix Open, using Solheim's "Anser" putter in early 1967."  I'm sure we all know someone who still uses an Anser or other version of Ping putter, and others who use the newer designs, as well.

So, what I am looking for are golfers who have a definite opinion about the benefits of using newer or older technology.

Drivers: Bag 1 - TM R11 (10.5°); Bag 2 - Ping G5 (9°),
Fairway woods: #1 - TM RBZ Tour (14.5°) & TM System 2 Raylor (17°); #2 - TM Burner (15°) & TM V-Steel (18°)
Hybrid: #1 - TM Rocketballz (19°); #2 - Ping G5 (19°)
Irons: #1 - Ping i3+; #2 - Hogan Edge  (both 4-pw, +1" shaft)
Wedges: #1 - Ping i3+ U wedge (52°) & Ping Eye 2+ BeCu (60°); #2 - Ping ISI Sand BeCu (52°) & Cleveland CG11 lob (60°)
Putters: Ping B60i & Anser 2, Odyssey White Steel 2-Ball & White Hot XG #9, Lamkim Jumbp grips
Golf Balls: Titleist Pro V1, Bridgestone B330, Callaway SR1, Slazenger Grips: Lamkin Crossline
Golf Shoes: Footjoy & Adidas; Golf Glove: Footjoy StaSof®; Golf Bag: Ping Hoofer
I love this game! :-D

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I'm just wondering how the golfers on this website feel about upgrading their clubs on a consistent basis versus using older technology.

Personally, I don't feel that the newer irons are significantly better than the 2002 Ping i3+ irons that I currently play.  I still play a Ping Eye 2+ BeCu lob wedge from 1990, and can't believe that the newer wedges would be any better. Golf companies continually market new clubs to sell, but they haven't convinced me that the newer irons perform better than the older models.

On the other hand, when it comes to drivers and fairway woods, I have found that upgrading to more current equipment has benefited my game. I have the TM R11 and Rocketballz drivers that have allowed me to hit more fairways and have instilled more confidence off of the tee. (And, we all know that golf is partly mental.) The TM Rocketballz 3 wood and hybrid have also added distance and accuracy from my older clubs. However, I still periodically carry an old TM Raylor from the 1990's when I know that the rough is a little longer than I like.

Finally, when it comes to the putter, I think we can all agree that Karsten Solheim revolutionized the game back in the 1960's with his numerous designs.  From Wikipedia, "Acceptance [of Solheim's technology] came when Julius Boros won the PGA Tour's Phoenix Open, using Solheim's "Anser" putter in early 1967."  I'm sure we all know someone who still uses an Anser or other version of Ping putter, and others who use the newer designs, as well.

So, what I am looking for are golfers who have a definite opinion about the benefits of using newer or older technology.

On solid hit shots, there is little to no difference in tech over the past 10 years or so in terms of distance and accuracy. All the tech upgrades have been in off center hits, and club fitting.

That is primarily why I think getting fitted today is a big advantage over older clubs. If you are fit to older clubs really well, then the difference isn't that much.

For irons the big difference, specifically in Game Improvement irons is the forgiveness and easy of launching the ball. This allows for stronger lofts, and in the end longer distances and better gaping between irons. Also the creation of hybrids can help players who struggle to hit long irons as well.

Also making irons more consistent on off center hits. More and more tech is in removing material behind the face to increase the COR of the irons as well. So Irons still have a way to go in terms of distance. This is why a lot of companies are making their longer irons with higher COR, but might tone it down a bit in the short irons. The progressive set design is big right now.

Also saying "Perform Better" is all about perspective. I am sure some golfers see big improvements, while others see little improvement from older to newer clubs.

As for Drivers, it has been increasing that COR limit to the outer edges of the driver. Making the sweet spot bigger. Again, centered hits will see minimal gains. Off center hits will benefit greatly.

Putters are a different animal all together. Heck even how the alignment lines are painted can effect how you aim. Example from my fitting, they tried one single line on top and I started to aim the putter way right. Then they split the lines to two lines about a ball widths apart. Bingo, I am able to aim the putter right were I was intending. It was a simple adjustment in the fitting, but had a huge effect. The eyes can really fool a golfer. Many people are fitted poorly and have to adjust with their stroke, by pushing or pulling putts, or opening and closing the alignment at address.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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As long as they conform to the rules, I don't see the question.  This is the rules forum, after all. ;-)

I buy something new when I perceive a need, which these days is rarely.  I don't think I've bought a club in over 5 years.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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As long as they conform to the rules, I don't see the question.  This is the rules forum, after all.

I buy something new when I perceive a need, which these days is rarely.  I don't think I've bought a club in over 5 years.

Oh I didn't even see that, good call!!! :beer:

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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Unless they get stolen, or break, I am on my last set of clubs. I don't see the need to purchase another set. New grips every so often. An adjustment check up, but not total replacement. Another plus is my lifetime, no questions asked warranty on my current set.

As far as new technology, I don't think new technology can guarantee a better game right out of the box. As with anything new, the new stuff could take too much time to get use to. Time I don't want to spend. By then something with newer technology has come out, and then what do you do? Start over again? I think not.

Only golf related things being purchased, that   I see in my future are a new bag, a new trolley (electric) , and a new ball if someone comes up with a ball that fits my game better than the ball I am now using.

In My Bag:
A whole bunch of Tour Edge golf stuff...... :beer:

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If you're playing i3+ irons you're probably not looking for max forgiveness on off-center contact, so in that respect newer irons aren't going to be "better", just different.  However, if you want more forgiveness in a clubhead that is exactly the same size I would bet the Ping i20's or later would give you that by virtue of the tungsten weight in the toe.  Simple physics at work there.  Then there are the taylormade/adams designs with the slots which probably work to some degree for stronger players, but maybe not for most of us.  It's a tough thing to objectively measure.  Verdict: BRAND NEW

With the lob wedge, perimeter weighting generally doesn't make any difference due to the glancing blow imparted from the high-lofted face (for the same reason the BeCu doesn't affect ball compression or "feel" on a wedge, but it sure is pretty to look at).  Modern wedge tech lies entirely in the groove modifications designed to circumvent the new rules.  Verdict: OLDER

On the flip side, I think driver tech peaked shortly after the USGA capped head size and COR.  I still have a Nike Sumo2 5900 I sometimes play around with and none of my newer drivers can beat it from a shot-making perspective because they all have max COR, VFT, and the same or less MOI.  And a few grams lighter than last decade doesn't equal longer or straighter for most of us.  Perhaps the famed "compression channel" really does improve spin numbers for shots hit low on the face for certain players, but that tech is already last-decade.  Verdict: NEW-ish

Then there are fairway woods.  Slots in the sole like with the RBZ and Adams products simply allow these clubs with steel heads to perform like the Ti fairways from last decade (Tour Edge exotics, Adams Insight, Cleveland launcher Ti, R7 Ti...).  Again, the shotmaking tech was maxed out last decade but the new designs are cheaper to manufacture. Verdict: OLD-ish

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OFF TOPIC

It has already been pointed out that this is the Rules Forum.

Why do people have to continue posting here.


Rather than make a post like this, just flag the first one and a moderator will move it…  as I've done, rendering your post the off-topic one.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Rather than make a post like this, just flag the first one and a moderator will move it…  as I've done, rendering your post the off-topic one.

Thanks for moving the posting.

Drivers: Bag 1 - TM R11 (10.5°); Bag 2 - Ping G5 (9°),
Fairway woods: #1 - TM RBZ Tour (14.5°) & TM System 2 Raylor (17°); #2 - TM Burner (15°) & TM V-Steel (18°)
Hybrid: #1 - TM Rocketballz (19°); #2 - Ping G5 (19°)
Irons: #1 - Ping i3+; #2 - Hogan Edge  (both 4-pw, +1" shaft)
Wedges: #1 - Ping i3+ U wedge (52°) & Ping Eye 2+ BeCu (60°); #2 - Ping ISI Sand BeCu (52°) & Cleveland CG11 lob (60°)
Putters: Ping B60i & Anser 2, Odyssey White Steel 2-Ball & White Hot XG #9, Lamkim Jumbp grips
Golf Balls: Titleist Pro V1, Bridgestone B330, Callaway SR1, Slazenger Grips: Lamkin Crossline
Golf Shoes: Footjoy & Adidas; Golf Glove: Footjoy StaSof®; Golf Bag: Ping Hoofer
I love this game! :-D

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Tend to agree re. irons. A mis-hit is a mis-hit is a mis-hit and all the (legal) technology in the World isn't going make it that much better. Golf OEMs need us to buy stuff and we're, in general, suckers for believing newer == better when, in all reality, it's often not.

Current drivers are definitely better than those from even 10 years back but I'm not sure if we aren't near the apex of actual gains. They can offer them in different paint jobs, user-customisable or whatever but I'm not convinced that the next great release from, say, Titleist with their 915 line, is really a genuine leap forward from their 910 line.

Fairway woods are getting the driver treatment at the moment (i.e. increased CoR etc) and I think there's definitely scope to max things out there as has happened for the drivers.

Hybrids are one thing I'm a recent convert to. I hit my long irons fairly well and I love the feel of flushing a 3-iron etc but, the from the moment I trialled one of the Titleist 910h hybrids, it was a no brainer. They ought to be illegal. So, I guess I'm saying the hybrids are a big jump forward cf. traditional long irons but I'm not sure whether Titleist's 915h hybrids are going to be genuinely a significant improvement over the 910h clubs.

Putters? Not sure there's anything worth writing home about. New iterations of Scottys ect might look beautiful but I don't think they make a blind bit of difference really. Maybe some of the modern mallets are a step forward from 10-20 years back but have they reached their zenith? Maybe.

At the end of the day though, it's about cultivating a decent, repeatable swing. That's what'll give a good, solid contact and decent control over direction, no matter what the club is or how old it is.

Home Course: Wollaton Park GC, Nottingham, U.K.

Ping G400, 9°, Alta CB 55S | Ping G400, 14°, Alta CB 65S | Adams Pro Dhy 18°, 21°, 24°, KBS Hybrid S | Ping S55 5-PW, TT DGS300 | Vokey 252-08, DGS200 | Vokey 256-10 (bent to 58°), DGS200 | Ping Sigma G Anser, 34" | Vice Pro Plus

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Except for about 27 holes this season, all my play has been with "vintage" equipment, see my signature. This is not a protest against technology, nor am I a club snob, I just enjoy the older gear much like someone who hunts with a bow or muzzleloader. My scores have stayed right around my 14.9 bogey golfer handicap.

My newest driver is about 9 years old; a Titileist 905T with a Speeder. I have a few other titanium headed drivers with graphite shafts, a set or two of cavity backs, a couple of hybrids, and like the OP, one of those Taylor Raylors from the 90's-which to me is the forerunner of the hybrids.

I believe that technology can help some folks enjoy the game more. If you look at the last 20 years or so rather than just the last 5, there have been several changes. The development of titanium wood heads in addition to the properties of the face, enabled larger heads and longer shafts. That means you hit it farther with the same swing, but can also mean farther off the fairway. The graphite shaft can be engineered with controllable properties of stiffness, flex, flex point, and torque, which enables more precise fitting of a shaft to a swing. Iron head technology has improved at a slower rate, but it has improved, and irons have also benefitted from shaft technology. The last 5-6 years have seen improvements in swing analyzers/launch monitors/ etc. to better understand how to apply the available technology to a wide variety of differently capable golfers.

It has been discussed many times, but irons do not really give more distance than they ever have. The modern irons have hotter lofts and longer shafts, and are somewhat more "forgiving" so that a less than perfect strike loses less distance. I believe the massaging of specs really got going around the early 90's so that today's 7 iron has about the loft and length of a 70's 5 or 6 iron. This is one reason you see sets now starting with the 4 or 5 iron and ending with 3 or 4 "wedges".

Of course, today's highly engineered balls are more consistent than the Pro Trajectory 90's back in the day, though I do miss the feel.

It takes a bit of clubhead speed to get the good out of the old butterknife 1-2-3 irons, and this is where I think a true innovation is. I can get about the same performance out of a 20* hybrid as I can out of my old 1 irons and it is much easier to hit. I love my Callaway hybrids and my old Raylor, although they have gathered dust this summer. They might come out some this winter if it is damp and I don't want to get my persimmons wet.

At the end of the day, though it is the indian, not the arrow. If you shoot 94-5ish with ill fitting equipment, I think technology might get you to 90, but much beyond that is up to you. If I am putting well and catch a few breaks, I will shoot 80-85. Playing once a week and average putting, I am around 86-90 --right at my handicap regardless of the implements used. It is harder to get from 15 to 10 than from 20 to 15. Personally, looking at my scores and shots over the summer, playing low tech probably costs me a 1/2 shot a side. I have a fairly consistent swing and a slight miss here and there might have been on the green with a little forgiveness. When I do miss though, I usually miss big and all the forgiveness in the world wouldn't save me, LOL!

Used correctly, the greatest return on investment comes from good lessons and range balls.

Don

In the bag:

Driver: PING 410 Plus 9 degrees, Alta CB55 S  Fairway: Callaway Rogue 3W PX Even Flow Blue 6.0; Hybrid: Titleist 818H1 21* PX Even Flow Blue 6.0;  Irons: Titleist 718 AP1 5-W2(53*) Shafts- TT AMT Red S300 ; Wedges Vokey SM8 56-10D Putter: Scotty Cameron 2016 Newport 2.5  Ball: Titleist AVX or 2021 ProV1

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I'm just wondering how the golfers on this website feel about upgrading their clubs on a consistent basis versus using older technology.

Personally, I don't feel that the newer irons are significantly better than the 2002 Ping i3+ irons that I currently play. ...

From 1994-2009, I played with custom-fitted Pro Tour component irons (very durable Ping Eye2 clones).

Being age 58 in 2009, I put them away these Dynalite S300-shafted clubs in favor of R-flex irons.

After starting with X20s, I switched to X20 Tours with Project X 5.0 rifle flighted shafts. These proved a bit harsh on days I wasn't swinging that well, so I reshafted with NS Pro 8950GH, R.flex.

Even before the reshaft, I didn't seem to be able to hit newer irons any better than the X20 Tours.

This summer, TST picked me to test out the new TM SLDR irons. In 4i - 6i, these are a bit easier to hit due to the Thru-Slot technology and the deep undercut behind the face. Ball gets up well, despite lofts being up to 3* stronger in longer irons. BUT, the X20 Tours feel more solid for 7i on up.

In irons, I would say that I upgrade on occasion - mainly when my old irons don't work very well any more. For this, I rely on launch monitor data rather than marketing hype. At that time, I will try to absorb some new technology that actually helps - some "new tech" stuff is just recycling old tech under a new name.

For drivers , the increase in MOI the past few years has made the driver  a fairly stable long club for me. I dropped the 2008 Callaway Hyper-X Tour driver in favor of the lighter-shafted and adjustable RazrFit (original version). But, newer super drivers don't go any farther than the RazrFit.

Also, these ads saying you pick up an extra 5-7 yards on your drives don't impress me. If I could pick up +20 yards on drives with no loss on accuracy, we might talk.

---------------

So, if I need to switch clubs for performance lags, I'll do it and try to pick up "new tech" that actually helps. Otherwise, I mainly use what I'm familiar with.

Focus, connect and follow through!

  • Completed KBS Education Seminar (online, 2015)
  • GolfWorks Clubmaking AcademyFitting, Assembly & Repair School (2012)

Driver:  :touredge: EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  :callaway: Rogue 4W + 7W
Hybrid:  :callaway: Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  :callaway: Mavrik MAX 5i-PW
Wedges:  :callaway: MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter:image.png.b6c3447dddf0df25e482bf21abf775ae.pngInertial NM SL-583F, 34"  
Ball:  image.png.f0ca9194546a61407ba38502672e5ecf.png QStar Tour - Divide  ||  Bag: :sunmountain: Three 5 stand bag

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Yes! Newer is better than older! (In the majority of cases for the majority of people!) Compare my grandmas hickory shafted woods to the titleist 913 series and it's a no Brainer, also, if you saw her irons compared to a set of rocketbladez, this question almost seems ridiculous!

Gaz Lee

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Yes! Newer is better than older! (In the majority of cases for the majority of people!)

Compare my grandmas hickory shafted woods to the titleist 913 series and it's a no Brainer, also, if you saw her irons compared to a set of rocketbladez, this question almost seems ridiculous!

Define "older"  I and a few others here play, what I consider older irons, ect. I.E. my irons are almost 10 yrs old... :-D

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Define "older"  I and a few others here play, what I consider older irons, ect. I.E. my irons are almost 10 yrs old...:-D

Well, there's old,... and older, I would suggest that technology peaked a few years back, and that now it's just tweaked and re packaged to keep sales up! But I would think that not too much has changed in the last 10 years. During the 80's/90's I think technology and design moved forward in leaps and bounds! But anything before then would not compare to the clubs in the last 10 years!

Gaz Lee

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while i doubt i will replace my current irons anytime soon ( 735cms )  I dont think the newer Irons are any better than anything in the last 15 yrs????

Like others have said a good shot with old irons is still going to go ...  the only difference with the newer stuff is the slight off hits, and the stronger lofts..

My brother who has a set of the 712 AP2's even told me he thought about going to something newer, but after thinking about it, said why??  I hit these so good, i will just use them till they are worn out...

one of his co workers who is a 1 handicap lol..... uses straight Blades from like the late 90s..    And had the same thoughts, about getting newer irons, but his thoughts was like why buy new stuff when i know, exactly how far i can hit all of my irons..  and he'd have to re learn how far the new irons will go...

It is what it is

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  • 2 weeks later...

Biggest advantage you might see from a new set of irons is new sharp grooves in your irons, particularly your wedges.  This following is my opinion only, but graphite shaft technology has came a long way in the last few years.  Lots of new technology in the actual head of the iron also.  I almost always keep a set of irons three years.  Most often when I think the irons have lost their magic, what I really need is a new set of grips.

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