Drop Off Path

[Gazzagolf]

Hi guys

potential issue at our club, 8 th hole uphill OOB all up left side but a cart path runs up left side about 6 to 8 feet from fence. There are small trees planted along the fence which used to be staked so free drop, now they have grown stakes are gone and no free drop which is fine. ( free drop made hole too easy imho). Problem is if a ball stops on the gravel path and you are right handed the room to drop is small and trees and fence interfere. This makes it difficult in places to even have a playable shot after a free drop. You couldn’t play from path with out destroying a club but seems harsh that your only 5 yards off the fairway on a man made path but have to drop where it’s virtually unplayable. There are places where if you took relief it would be unplayable then two clubs only gets you back to path!

can we make a local rule that all drop to right of path if a ball is on the path? Or a drop zone for path? Or is it just tough?

thanks

[pganapathy]

Why can't you drop on the right side of the path.  All you need is Nearest Point of Relief from the path.  Of course, if that is to the left and you get a difficult angle to hit from, that is just tough.

[Gazzagolf]

Hi.

if you’re right handed the nearest point of relief is almost always the left side. It just seems harsh that your ball is in bounds and would be perfectly playable but because you have to get relief from a cart path your ball becomes unplayable. It’s not just a difficult angle, you don’t have a swing.

[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, Gazzagolf said:

Hi.

if you’re right handed the nearest point of relief is almost always the left side. It just seems harsh that your ball is in bounds and would be perfectly playable but because you have to get relief from a cart path your ball becomes unplayable. It’s not just a difficult angle, you don’t have a swing.

Depending on how close the path is to the fence, I see a possible way around this.  So you take your drop between the path and the fence, and you can't take a stance to hit the ball toward the green.  A reasonable option is to hit sideways, or even backward (toward the tee).  If the path interferes with THAT stance, you get relief again.  If there isn't enough room to drop the ball inside the fence without having your feet on the path (hitting toward the tee), your NPR might then be on the right side of the path.  Of course, if the path is 6 to 8 feet from the fence, there probably IS enough room to take that shot toward the tee without interference from the path.  I'd be aiming my tee shot at the other side of the fairway, to do my best to avoid this problem.

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Of course, if the path is 6 to 8 feet from the fence…

Right, there's always going to be enough room to take a stance over there.

Don't hit it there, and if you do, consider putting it or blading it back into play so your club(s) don't hit the cart path.

The only real alternative is actually for the club to move the OB line to the (outer) edge of the cart path. That would eliminate drops on that side, but with the obvious other consequences.

[DrvFrShow]

I know the ball is on the cart path and you supposedly get a "free drop." But in this case could you take an unplayable lie instead and drop no nearer the hole two club lengths toward the right side of the cart path +1 stroke. Chances are it'll put your ball just off the cart path or maybe you'll be clear. Who knows? But if you're not completely clear with your feet still on the cart path, could you then take cart path relief? Hey, I'm just asking. I'm no expert. I didn't see anything that says you can't do this. It would be an alternative to wrecking your club or the two or three strokes taken trying to hit out of a mess in the bushes.

[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

I know the ball is on the cart path and you supposedly get a "free drop." But in this case could you take an unplayable lie instead and drop no nearer the hole two club lengths toward the right side of the cart path +1 stroke. Chances are it'll put your ball just off the cart path or maybe you'll be clear. Who knows? But if you're not completely clear with your feet still on the cart path, could you then take cart path relief? Hey, I'm just asking. I'm no expert. I didn't see anything that says you can't do this. It would be an alternative to wrecking your club or the two or three strokes taken trying to hit out of a mess in the bushes.

That's exactly correct.  However, if you lift your ball with the intention of taking free relief from the cart path, you have limited your choices: 

take free relief, near the point of nearest complete relief to the left of the path.  Once you have taken that drop, you can then take any of the unplayable lie choices, at a cost of one penalty stroke, but once you're on the left side of the path you might not be able to get to a decent spot with the relief options available

Take two clublength relief from the original location on the path (unplayable lie), with a total of two penalty strokes

or take stroke and distance relief (unplayable lie) with one penalty stroke.  

This is all in Interpretation 9.4b/6.  The moral of the story, be sure you know what your plan is before you lift any ball.

[RemyM]

They can create drop zones on the fairway side of the path to take your relief from the path.

[DrvFrShow]

On 6/3/2019 at 3:23 PM, DaveP043 said:

That's exactly correct.  However, if you lift your ball with the intention of taking free relief from the cart path, you have limited your choices: 

take free relief, near the point of nearest complete relief to the left of the path.  Once you have taken that drop, you can then take any of the unplayable lie choices, at a cost of one penalty stroke, but once you're on the left side of the path you might not be able to get to a decent spot with the relief options available

Take two clublength relief from the original location on the path (unplayable lie), with a total of two penalty strokes

or take stroke and distance relief (unplayable lie) with one penalty stroke.  

This is all in Interpretation 9.4b/6.  The moral of the story, be sure you know what your plan is before you lift any ball.

Looking at it from another angle since it's going to cost you anyway, if it's a paved path, I'd probably putt off of it toward the fairway. But if it was gravel, try to chip it off. It's not a full shot and probably wouldn't damage the club - maybe get it into a better spot. I've learned that sometimes free isn't so free.

[Cantankerish]

Gazzagolf, I think you get relief from that path, and that the relief guarantees space to swing, etc.  But there is no guarantee that you get to hit the ball the direction you would like - just that you can hit it.

[iacas]

Just now, Cantankerish said:

Gazzagolf, I think you get relief from that path, and that the relief guarantees space to swing, etc.

Not true.

You must take complete relief from the path, but it doesn't guarantee that you have a swing at all.

[Cantankerish]

So then, is complete relief possible without a place to swing?

 

Nvm, different kind of relief

 

[Gazzagolf]

Thanks folks.

from what I can gather as it stands it’s just tough, if you’re on the path you either play or go to nearest point of relief which maybe way worse and leave you with no shot at all.

as a committee we do have a few options to help though. We can create drop zones just for relief from the path, apparently you can make a local rule that makes the path relief from the ball and exclude stance, so you could drop off the path but be allowed to stand on it which would solve the problem without adding to greenstaff workload marking and remarking drop zones. I didn’t know this was an option but our comp sec checked with regional rules officer.

The more brutal option would be make the left edge of the path OOB so you have to drop on the right.

comp meeting next week to decide, thanks for the ideas and help.

[leftybutnotPM]

2 hours ago, Cantankerish said:

So then, is complete relief possible without a place to swing?

 

 

 

Yes - but relief does not guarantee a free swing. One of the most commonly broken rules is people taking relief from paths and thinking they can drop it where they avoid trees and have a clear shot. Complete relief and a place to swing are totally independent entities; they have nothing to do with each other. 

[okeloon]

sorry to hijack this thread but I have a question...my playing partner who is right handed found his ball just off the left side of a path. 

Therefore his ball was not on the path nor was his stance, however, he then declared that he intended to play the shot left handed (he has never said that before nor have i seen him play a left handed shot).

Is this legal? I told him I thought you had to make a legitimate attempt and take your normal stance to play the shot but he thought otherwise...

 

[DaveP043]

53 minutes ago, okeloon said:

sorry to hijack this thread but I have a question...my playing partner who is right handed found his ball just off the left side of a path. 

Therefore his ball was not on the path nor was his stance, however, he then declared that he intended to play the shot left handed (he has never said that before nor have i seen him play a left handed shot).

Is this legal? I told him I thought you had to make a legitimate attempt and take your normal stance to play the shot but he thought otherwise...

16.1a(3) says this:

Quote

(3) No Relief When Clearly Unreasonable to Play Ball. There is no relief under Rule 16.1:

 

• When interference exists only because a player chooses a club, type of stance or swing or direction of play that is clearly unreasonable under the circumstances.

I'd say that for a right-handed player to choose to play lefthanded when a normal right-handed swing is available is "clearly unreasonable".  A left-handed swing COULD be reasonable if the ball was against a fence or tree or something that made a right-handed swing impossible.

[jlbos83]

On 6/3/2019 at 1:38 AM, Gazzagolf said:

Hi.

if you’re right handed the nearest point of relief is almost always the left side. It just seems harsh that your ball is in bounds and would be perfectly playable but because you have to get relief from a cart path your ball becomes unplayable. It’s not just a difficult angle, you don’t have a swing.

Remember that you do get a club length, not nearer the hole, from the NPR, which may get you to a slightly better spot.  Also, if your ball stopped in the area between the path and the fence (where you are taking relief from the path), you would not be looking for relief.  The drop is just putting you in the nearest place to where your ball stopped that is not impacted by the path, there's no logical reason why you should get to go somewhere else just because it isn't nice.  As quote I have often seen (and often seen abused), it's Nearest point of relief, not Nicest point of relief.  Putting, blading, chipping, or an unplayable are all other options.

[leftybutnotPM]

On 8/8/2019 at 1:53 AM, okeloon said:

sorry to hijack this thread but I have a question...my playing partner who is right handed found his ball just off the left side of a path. 

Therefore his ball was not on the path nor was his stance, however, he then declared that he intended to play the shot left handed (he has never said that before nor have i seen him play a left handed shot).

Is this legal? I told him I thought you had to make a legitimate attempt and take your normal stance to play the shot but he thought otherwise...

 

Of course it's not legal. He's a cheating douche and I can guarantee that he is in other aspects of life.