Who Pushes Off With Their Trail Leg?

[hoselpalooza]

Just now, billchao said:

@iacas never said the trail foot has to be at 100% to indicate pushing, and he said the left foot is unweighted.

my mistake about the left foot being unweighted. 

then what does this mean if not that the trail foot has to be at 100%?

50 minutes ago, iacas said:

Pushing would increase the pressure. It’s not at 100% so there’s room for it to increase.

 

[billchao]

Just now, hoselpalooza said:

then what does this mean if not that the trail foot has to be at 100%?

Pushing increases pressure. If you're 20/80 and you push with the trail leg, you'll end up 10/90.

Just an example with numbers I made up BTW.

[iacas]

Just now, billchao said:

Pushing increases pressure. If you're 20/80 and you push with the trail leg, you'll end up 10/90.

This.

[hoselpalooza]

7 minutes ago, billchao said:

Pushing increases pressure. If you're 20/80 and you push with the trail leg, you'll end up 10/90.

Just an example with numbers I made up BTW.

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

This.

which is exactly what terry hashimoto demonstrates in the trace of kisner i shared. the trail foot pressure increases from 68 to 80 as he pushes off of his trail foot during transition.

hashimoto later comments about how a lot of bodytrak advisers talk about how the pressure gets to the lead side quickly but that it starts from the trail side.  

what is the flaw in hashimoto's analysis?

[billchao]

3 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

which is exactly what terry hashimoto demonstrates in the trace of kisner i shared. the trail foot pressure increases from 68 to 80 as he pushes off of his trail foot during transition.

Did you see this? I posted it earlier:

Left is top of the backswing, right is literally the next frame. Trail foot 53 -> 19.

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

which is exactly what terry hashimoto demonstrates in the trace of kisner i shared. the trail foot pressure increases from 68 to 80 as he pushes off of his trail foot during transition.

He's still making his backswing when he goes from 68 to 80:

The next frame? He starts his downswing and already he's dropped from 80 to 54:

C'mon man.

[hoselpalooza]

6 minutes ago, billchao said:

Did you see this? I posted it earlier:

Left is top of the backswing, right is literally the next frame. Trail foot 53 -> 19.

i did see it and you're completely wrong. like i said, pressure in his trail foot goes from 68 -> 80.  

look at these two time-stamped screenshots:

[Phil McGleno]

3 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

i did see it and you're completely wrong. like i said, pressure in his trail foot goes from 68 -> 80.  

look at these two time-stamped screenshots:

THAT IS STILL THE BACKSWING.

He is not pushing forward-He is still swinging BACK.

Every 30 seconds you post something else dumb to this topic.-Does your mommy know you are using her Internet and still up at this hour? Go to bed.

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Phil McGleno

[mvmac]

@hoselpalooza, you're too focused on what people are saying and not what the data shows.

Think about this with some common sense.

1. In order to "push" you have to have some flex in your leg, correct? 

2. Does the trail leg gain flex or reduce in flex into transition?
 

1 hour ago, hoselpalooza said:

 

more info from another source who uses force vectors:

Push hard to get more acceleration | dbprogolf

---

The ground reaction force (GRF) is the force exerted by the ground on a body in contact with it. Recalling Newton’s 3rd law: “For every action, there is an e...

 

Did you read what the guy said?

First he says max pressure left arm parallel on the backswing, which it's either there or A2.5,

Quote

2) Left arm parallel (backswing): the golfer achieves the max pressure on the right foot (most probably much earlier than what you were guessing). This early load helps the player to start firing the lower body toward the target, still when the hands are going up, creating what we call "extra stretches", crucial in creating a strong angular velocity. 

COP average Tour data mid-backswing: 20% L – 80% R 

Then he says,

Quote

3) Top of the backswing (the club stops, changing direction from backswing to downswing): In this frame, the right foot already started pushing hard toward the target. 

COP average Tour data top-back: 50% L – 50% R 

How can you push hard at the top of the backswing after having the max pressure at left arm parallel? And still have the pressure numbers 50/50? Doesn't make sense. I think "push" might mean something different to him than what we are talking about. I almost wonder if he's thinking about a shearing force.

This clip here is very much what @iacas has been saying about the core controlling the movement forward on the downswing. Not much opinion here, these guys are just measuring, the pressure on the ground and the body segments. 

 

8 hours ago, hoselpalooza said:

here's a video of JT pushing off with the trail foot. pay careful attention to the fabric on the boditrak mat at 25 seconds. he pushes off with his trail foot to shift pressure to the lead foot, causing the fabric to move backwards. no push off would mean no fabric movement there.

also looks like he pushes off pretty hard with the trail toe just before impact. 

 

This is at :25 and just after, not seeing it. He is gaining flex and lifting his trail heel, literally the opposite of a "push".

 

10 hours ago, iacas said:

But @mvmac you're just using your naked eye… to look at the force vectors. 😉

Nope, I used these,

[billchao]

8 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

i did see it and you're completely wrong. like i said, pressure in his trail foot goes from 68 -> 80.  

look at these two time-stamped screenshots:

What? How can I be completely wrong with screenshots? 🤦🏻‍♂️

The ones I took are from the driver swing.

Dude you don't even know where transition is. See @iacas's post above yours.

[hoselpalooza]

7 minutes ago, Phil McGleno said:

THAT IS STILL THE BACKSWING.

He is not pushing forward-He is still swinging BACK.

Every 30 seconds you post something else dumb to this topic.-Does your mommy know you are using her Internet and still up at this hour? Go to bed.

 

reported as inappropriate. 

it's possible to make a lateral shift toward the target by pushing off with the trail foot before completing the backswing. 

i've shared data, analysis by qualified professionals, as well as comments from pros who all assert they push off of their trail foot during transition/early part of the downswing. if you guys want to continue to disagree with everything i've presented that is your prerogative, but it doesn't make you correct. 

[Vinsk]

2 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

it's possible to make a lateral shift toward the target by pushing off with the trail foot before completing the backswing. 

Of course it’s possible. But that’s not what’s happening. It’s also possible to shake your head violently during the backswing as well. 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

it's possible to make a lateral shift toward the target by pushing off with the trail foot before completing the backswing. 

Once again, nobody's saying it's impossible. We're simply saying you've yet to find someone who does this.

3 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

i've shared data

No you haven't.

2 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

analysis by qualified professionals

I don't think you know what they are even saying. And, sorry to break it to you, but I'm a qualified professional too.

2 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

as well as comments from pros

Feel ain't real.

2 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

if you guys want to continue to disagree with everything i've presented that is your prerogative, but it doesn't make you correct. 

Dude, you don't even seem to know when the backswing ends.

[saevel25]

6 minutes ago, Phil McGleno said:

THAT IS STILL THE BACKSWING

^This, I've looked at the video and he is still completing his backswing. 

@hoselpalooza, you don't get to shift the goal posts to fit your argument. You don't get to redefine what a backswing is. Kisner is clearly still continuing his backswing. 

I believe you have gone on long enough on this. Your failure to understand what even the people in the videos are saying is not helping your case here. 

1 minute ago, hoselpalooza said:

it's possible to make a lateral shift toward the target by pushing off with the trail foot before completing the backswing. 

That isn't what Kisner is doing.

1 minute ago, hoselpalooza said:

i've shared data, analysis by qualified professionals, as well as comments from pros who all assert they push off of their trail foot during transition/early part of the downswing.

Pro's are routinely incorrect about what is going on. Heck, in Jason Days article you posted a few pages ago, in the final part of his tip he never mentioned once about pushing off. That was his comments about piecing everything together. Specifically talking about the transition and downswing... 

 

[colin007]

[hoselpalooza]

kisner achieves 80% on his trail foot exactly at the top of the backswing. he starts pushing off just moments prior when pressure is at 68%. 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

kisner achieves 80% on his trail foot exactly at the top of the backswing. he starts pushing off just moments prior when pressure is at 68%. 

He's not pushing off here.

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

kisner achieves 80% on his trail foot exactly at the top of the backswing. he starts pushing off just moments prior when pressure is at 68%. 

Pushing off would indicate a spike. Since the pressure goes from 80 trail foot to immediately 80 forward foot, there is no spike, so no push off.  

The fact that his leg gains flexion during the downswing indicates that he is not pushing off. Ever use a deadlift machine? Try to push that thing up and flex your knee... It's impossible. 

So, there are to major facts that hurt your proposition. 

1. Golfers gain flexion in their trail leg and maintain it way into the downswing.
2. The measured pressure under the trail foot does not spike. 

These two things, biometrics and actual measurable do not support your argument.