Are Golf Course Owners Responsible for Excessive Golf Ball Damage From the Driving Range?

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Then you’ve completely misunderstood my point.

No.

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

I don’t believe in blaming other people for the consequences of my own bad decisions.  I realize that puts me in the minority, but nonetheless...

 

David, I see where you're coming from... not blaming others for your bad decisions.  I'm like that, too.  But in the golf range issue the owner seems like a cheap, uncaring jerk who really doesn't have the fair right to, in essence, claim lands beyond his range are essentially his to continue to populate with golf balls.  He had to know that one day things were going to catch up with him.

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Patricia... I'd really like a closer look at this range.  Any chance you could post a Google Earth overhead image?  Or, better yet, provide the address of the range.

[FlyingAce]

Perhaps you can put up cameras in that area to see how/how often you get stray balls? Start gathering actual evidence incase you need to use them in court. I know you said the HOA already said it is not their problem, but since this is an issue with a few units that is part of the HOA, perhaps they can step in as a business entity to talk to the owner of the course. If someone gets injured on these 3 driveways, the person could sue the homeowner, the golf course and the HOA, so it is not really too bad for the homeowner. If there is a lawsuit, the whole community will be affected.

Actually did you read the CC&Rs carefully  to see what is your responsibility and what the HOA is responsible for? Don’t depend on the HOA to tell you that. I have a couple of properties in CA and they all have a HOA. For my townhomes, anything on the outside of the unit is the HOA’s responsibility. The garage is considered common area for use exclusively by the unit owners, but it is still common areas. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by FlyingAce

[phillyk]

3 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

But in the golf range issue the owner seems like a cheap, uncaring jerk who really doesn't have the fair right to, in essence, claim lands beyond his range are essentially his to continue to populate with golf balls.

If the course has other homes along the edge, imagine how many complaints or requests he must receive to do x, y, and z.

People come in quite often to complain about potential trees falling from the course property onto their home. Then we hire tree guys to come tell the home owner that the tree is perfectly safe. Of course it isnt good enough and they want the tree removed. So now you take maintenance time and money to remove. And it goes on and on.

A range fence is actually a big investment. Changing how a tee is built and maintained can also be a big investment. He won’t change something like that easily. 

[David in FL]

15 hours ago, phillyk said:

If the course has other homes along the edge, imagine how many complaints or requests he must receive to do x, y, and z.

People come in quite often to complain about potential trees falling from the course property onto their home. Then we hire tree guys to come tell the home owner that the tree is perfectly safe. Of course it isnt good enough and they want the tree removed. So now you take maintenance time and money to remove. And it goes on and on.

A range fence is actually a big investment. Changing how a tee is built and maintained can also be a big investment. He won’t change something like that easily. 

And you just know that half the owners would consider it an eyesore that ruins their golf course view, and sue to have it removed!   

[patriciawelch]

19 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

David, I see where you're coming from... not blaming others for your bad decisions.  I'm like that, too.  But in the golf range issue the owner seems like a cheap, uncaring jerk who really doesn't have the fair right to, in essence, claim lands beyond his range are essentially his to continue to populate with golf balls.  He had to know that one day things were going to catch up with him.

---

Patricia... I'd really like a closer look at this range.  Any chance you could post a Google Earth overhead image?  Or, better yet, provide the address of the range.

19 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

David, I see where you're coming from... not blaming others for your bad decisions.  I'm like that, too.  But in the golf range issue the owner seems like a cheap, uncaring jerk who really doesn't have the fair right to, in essence, claim lands beyond his range are essentially his to continue to populate with golf balls.  He had to know that one day things were going to catch up with him.

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Patricia... I'd really like a closer look at this range.  Any chance you could post a Google Earth overhead image?  Or, better yet, provide the address of the range.

Hopefully this will work.  Here are the three condos facing the driving range.  The large empty green space across the street is the driving range.  https://earth.google.com/web/@33.6962594,-116.22805945,262.74886417a,14.57155536d,35y,-179.69149762h,44.99461567t,-0r/data=ClEaTxJJCiUweDgwZGFmN2Y2NTRhMGVlNWQ6MHhiOGQzMGZhZjBkZDZmNzAyGYS4cvbO2EBAIVRvDWyVDl3AKg44MjMxNSBPZGx1bSBEchgCIAE  

 

First of all, we are not talking about an occasional hit from the game. I know that happens everywhere. We are talking about excessive balls hitting three properties that are in direct firing line of the driving range.

In my case. Putting up a net would not obstruct any homeowner view since our garages face the range.  The net would certainly keep us safe from getting hit in the driveway.  From what I can see, all the other homes on the course would not lose there view because the only thing that faces the net is the diving range.  The golf course owner could simply try moving the range back enough so as not to hit our three condos.  If that does not work than some taller trees might work and lastly a narrow but tall net to block the three condos would probably remedy the situation. I just wish that the owner were more cooperative.  His response to me when I approached him with these ideas were.  "There are trees there - I am not planting any more, if you want trees, then you should plant them on your property"  - My response was - well the trees are obviously too short because 105 golf balls have hit and dented our garages and there is no possible way that I can put trees on my property because there is only cement and a driveway the rest is the course common area".    When I asked him if he would try moving the range back so many yards to see if that would remedy the situation, he responded by saying  "no I will not do that, either".   I bend over backwards to keep my tenants happy.  Why can't the owner of this club try to be more accommodating with the home owners?  From what I hear there are several home owners that pray for the day when he sells the club, hoping that we will have a new owner who will do right with it.  The grounds are deteriorating, the club house and pub are not even close to what it used to be. Trust me, I am not the only one having problems with this guy!  But I go back to my original concern and that is for safety.  I can keep replacing my garage door because of the dents but what happens when my tenant or someone gets badly hurt from one of these EXCESSIVE flying balls?

 

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, patriciawelch said:

Hopefully this will work.  Here are the three condos facing the driving range.  The large empty green space across the street is the driving range.

This?

That line, as you can see, is 220 yards. For even that first garage to be hit, it requires a shot hit way, way to the right - a shank - and only about 100 yards. Or less.

This course or range must have the worst golfers of all time if you're hit that often. I mean, that's a BAD shot, and even then, only the first condo really appears to be in danger. The others are almost hidden behind it a little.

9 minutes ago, patriciawelch said:

First of all, we are not talking about an occasional hit from the game. I know that happens everywhere. We are talking about excessive balls hitting three properties that are in direct firing line of the driving range.

None of those condos are "in direct firing line".

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As for the rest, again, consult the laws for your area. Few of us here (and not me) are lawyers.

[DaveP043]

"From what I hear there are several home owners that pray for the day when he sells the club, hoping that we will have a new owner who will do right with it.  The grounds are deteriorating, the club house and pub are not even close to what it used to be. "

It seems possible that there's simply no money for the golf course to do the things that you'd like.  I have no idea what the law allows, but I think the suggestion from others that you contact an attorney are right on.  If all three of you who are affected could work together, you could share the legal expense while creating greater leverage.  It may also be possible that your HOA could work together with the course owner to fund construction of a net.  Yeah, its for the benefit of a few units, but that's not unheard of.  Very few initiatives improve things for every single owner.  Good luck!

[Double Mocha Man]

From the air that is a very ugly course, apparently not kept up at all. Zoom out to about a half-mile away and look at the other course. What a difference!  There are so many homes on that course and so close to the fairways it looks like nobody is safe from a pelting.

Patricia, if that is your house next to the speed bump looking straight on at the range, it seems a strategically-placed 30-yard net would do the trick. Your other neighbors don't appear to be in the flight path of most golf balls.

[Sandy Lie]

On 12/22/2019 at 8:47 PM, patriciawelch said:

I appreciate your comments and understand what you are all saying. I am to blame for not realizing that the driving range was so very close to these condos and unfortunately there is no way for me to put up a net since my driveway connects to a cement narrow street directly across from the driving range.  I am stuck until I can afford to sell it.  I just hope no one gets badly hurt.  If and when that day happens then the club owner may decide to put up a net in the grassy area on the edge of the driving range.  That would have been a simple solution, unfortunately, the club owner is unwilling to do this.   Or, he could have attempted to move the driving range a few feet back or change the angle of it in a way to cause the balls to go into a different direction..  He is also unwilling to do this.  I was just hoping that there was some law which would force the owner to put a net or re-position the range.  If anyone knows of any California golf course law which would enforce this please let me know.   It certainly was poor planning of the builder to get building permits to place these three condos so close to the driving range.  This is not a noise problem like an airport. This is a safety problem.   I am not aware of any home ever being built right next to an airport runway. I do not think any city would approve that.  They should not have approved the plans to have these condos so close to the driving range and I should have not purchased this condo without doing my homework. For me, this is truly a lesson learned. 

It’s not clear to me ir your condo is at the end of the range or at the end but on the left side.  Perhaps there’s a compromise with the owner to not allow drivers and/or 3 woods on the side of the range your condo is on. 
 

Also, the City clearly allowed a builder to construct the condo’s there, they issued permits. Or how about contacting your local news station for a human interest story for you and the other owners to talk about the danger the driving range poses to the families living there?

[dennyjones]

There is a situation here in Davison where the country club only allows people on the range to hit irons because businesses built at the end of the driving range.   Somehow it works.  

Davison Country Club

[Double Mocha Man]

4 hours ago, dennyjones said:

There is a situation here in Davison where the country club only allows people on the range to hit irons because businesses built at the end of the driving range.   Somehow it works.  

Davison Country Club

What fun is that not to hit a driver?!  No, I'm not one of those guys who pulls out his driver first and whacks it for most of the range session.  I start with wedges and work up to the driver... maybe 8-10 balls with the driver.  If I'm getting it to turn over nicely I'll stop around 6.  But the point is... I want to hit my driver on the range.  And I do understand, real estate is getting scarce.

[No Mulligans]

On 12/23/2019 at 9:43 PM, David in FL said:

Not at all.  There could be a ton of options that it could be used for.

Turn that around.  A businessman should change his entire business simply because some goober comes by 10 years later and wants to do something with the adjacent land that isn’t appropriate given the circumstances?

What about the landowner who owned that land, zoned for residential developement, before the driving range?  He losses value because a neighbor builds a driving range with balls flying into his property.

[David in FL]

59 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

What about the landowner who owned that land, zoned for residential developement, before the driving range?  He losses value because a neighbor builds a driving range with balls flying into his property.

You have no idea if that happened.  It’s just as likely that the owner of the course owned all the land and decided to subdivide well after  he built the course.

 

[iacas]

I see no real point in discussing hypotheticals — from any side — when we're discussing a real, current situation.

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I see no real point in discussing hypotheticals — from any side — when we're discussing a real, current situation.

Good point.  And until Patricia talks to an attorney or looks closer at her deed/title we won't know the actual situation.  Though, from yesterday's overhead photos, with all the hundreds of houses, I kinda believe there's got to be some kind of covenant or hold harmless clause.