LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[Pretzel]

The main thing that scares the PGA/Euro tours is that their events become substantially less valuable in comparison if a competing league with ONLY star-studded fields pops up. They don't want somebody to take advantage of their large investments by essentially using their top-level productions (the PGA/Euro tours) as a feeder series to create even higher quality events (from an advertising/revenue perspective anyways). It completely discounts the entire basis of the PGA/Euro tours' current values, which is the substantial mini tour systems that exist to find and funnel the best talent (best here meaning the most profitable talent, those who are streaky enough to go on a run of wins) to the top-level productions.

Why would a company pay top-dollar for sponsorship and advertising at many different events that have a few stars and mostly nobodies when they could spend their money instead on several high-impact events with fields of nothing but stars? The money comes from the stars, and the current arrangement benefits both the PGA and Euro tours by allowing them both to take advantage of the money that comes along with hosting tournaments where the best players are present. If the best players decide to go elsewhere because they got better offers, they take a VERY substantial portion of the PGA/Euro tour's revenue with them. The effect wouldn't be immediate but the delay wouldn't be long either, sponsorship and advertising deals would plummet in value and some might even argue in court (likely unsuccessfully, but still expensively) for a breech of existing contracts if the primary reasons for the sponsorship/advertising (the viewers that tune in or show up to watch the best of the best play) are no longer there.

It's not that they're worried about someone new taking a piece of their existing pie, it's that they're worried somebody is going to make their existing pie worth less. Even worse, they'd be doing it by using the most exciting pie flavors the PGA/Euro has tours spent years and billions of dollars developing. The thing that has been the PGA/Euro tours' biggest advantage and best business strategy for decades - using other smaller budget tours to recruit the most profitable talent - would now be used against them.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Pretzel

[Vinsk]

Well PGA Tour, pay up or shut up.😀

[iacas]

Here's what I don't quite get, too.

Let's say 50 players are sucked into some new league. And with it, a BUNCH of the money.

The PGA Tour is almost the Korn Ferry Tour at that point, and so how are they going to identify who deserves to be "promoted" to the new "stars" league? What if the new PGA Tour just folds? What if they say "if you go to that league, you can't ever re-join our league"? That'd hurt if you got the invitation, but stunk it up and got booted from the "stars" league.

If the "stars" league is going to use the PGA Tour as a "feeder" league or a minor league, then that means they're still relying to some degree on the PGA Tour.

[Zeph]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

Well PGA Tour, pay up or shut up.😀

They can pay more or differently, but they can never compete with the Saudi oil money. Sadly, they may take over the top level of golf, because many players will follow the money. It’s gone a long way towards oil money dominating the top level football/soccer, and golf is next. Sportswashing. And it’s difficult to resist for owners, players, board members, because there is so much money in it.

[Vinsk]

59 minutes ago, Zeph said:

They can pay more or differently, but they can never compete with the Saudi oil money. Sadly, they may take over the top level of golf, because many players will follow the money. It’s gone a long way towards oil money dominating the top level football/soccer, and golf is next. Sportswashing. And it’s difficult to resist for owners, players, board members, because there is so much money in it.

That’s why earlier I mentioned there may  be another factor other than just money. The top, and others may feel they are being unfairly treated with the PGA Tour and are wanting to make a statement by leaving. The players need to weigh the money with the possible moral issues. But damn, 100+ million? That can be moral bending….

[dennyjones]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

Just financially (setting aside any moral shit for now), how does Bryson NOT take that deal if it's true? And that's just a signing bonus, I think.

I believe that the only way he can't take the money is if he has strong feelings for the tradition of the PGA Tour with all of its history.   I'm not in his place or will ever have to make a decision like that but my first instinct would be to take the money and run.

[dennyjones]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

Here's what I don't quite get, too.

Let's say 50 players are sucked into some new league. And with it, a BUNCH of the money.

The PGA Tour is almost the Korn Ferry Tour at that point, and so how are they going to identify who deserves to be "promoted" to the new "stars" league? What if the new PGA Tour just folds? What if they say "if you go to that league, you can't ever re-join our league"? That'd hurt if you got the invitation, but stunk it up and got booted from the "stars" league.

If the "stars" league is going to use the PGA Tour as a "feeder" league or a minor league, then that means they're still relying to some degree on the PGA Tour.

If that happens will:

1.   PGA Tour viewers decrease
2.   advertisers drop off
3.   TV revenue decreases
4.   pay PGA Tour players less

questions...

[iacas]

46 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

I believe that the only way he can't take the money is if he has strong feelings for the tradition of the PGA Tour with all of its history.   I'm not in his place or will ever have to make a decision like that but my first instinct would be to take the money and run.

It's blood money, and Phil has plenty of money for his grandkids to have plenty of money.

[snow bird]

Maybe if the electric vehicles and solar power take over the demand for oil will collapse. Then the life of excess in the Middle East will end. I can attest that solar power is extremely effective. I use solar power in my small business and have cut my fairly  high electric utility needs by 90%. Saving me around $15,000 per year. Looking forward to buying the F150 LIGHTNING.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by snow bird

[iacas]

1995:

PGA Outclubs FTC in Antitrust Fight

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For the 24.3 million Americans who struggle just to steady their backswings, golf is a fiendishly...

 

[iacas]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:29 AM, iacas said:

Nobody's buying tickets to attend an event or tuning in to watch Tom Hoge, yet he made like $1.7M last year.

Well that was irony-adjacent.

[jsgolfer]

55 minutes ago, iacas said:

Well that was irony-adjacent.

Didn't know that you were Nostradamus too.  

[iacas]

1 minute ago, jsgolfer said:

Didn't know that you were Nostradamus too.  

I still doubt anyone's buying tickets to see him outside of his friends and family.

[jsgolfer]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

I still doubt anyone's buying tickets to see him outside of his friends and family.

True.

[phan52]

On 2/7/2022 at 8:29 AM, iacas said:

I still doubt anyone's buying tickets to see him outside of his friends and family.

A good example was the TV telecast showing all of Spieth's shots live and Hoge's brilliant approach on 16 being on tape delay. 

On 2/3/2022 at 7:09 PM, iacas said:

It's blood money, and Phil has plenty of money for his grandkids to have plenty of money.

Phil really went off the rails last week. First of all, a lot of he said was untrue. And then his complaint about them not paying him enough was off because he truly owes most of his fortune to the PGA Tour. If it didn't exist, neither would he as the celebrated golfer that he became. I think most of them know that.

[DeadMan]

According to this article, the PGA Tour should be able to ban players:

Can players be banned legally from the PGA Tour for joining the Super Golf League? | Golf News and Tour Information | Golf Digest

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We asked antitrust experts whether the PGA Tour have the legal authority to permanently ban individuals for aligning with the SGL or another rival golf league

Interesting, because I've read/heard a lot that the PGA Tour might not be able to ban players. Apparently, that is wrong. 

That said, I would still guarantee a lawsuit if the PGA Tour actually bans a player for joining a different tour.

[dennyjones]

25 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

According to this article, the PGA Tour should be able to ban players:

Can players be banned legally from the PGA Tour for joining the Super Golf League? | Golf News and Tour Information | Golf Digest

---

We asked antitrust experts whether the PGA Tour have the legal authority to permanently ban individuals for aligning with the SGL or another rival golf league

Interesting, because I've read/heard a lot that the PGA Tour might not be able to ban players. Apparently, that is wrong. 

That said, I would still guarantee a lawsuit if the PGA Tour actually bans a player for joining a different tour.

Doesn't P. Reed play on two different tours?

[iacas]

3 hours ago, dennyjones said:

Doesn't P. Reed play on two different tours?

As do almost all of them. That's not the same thing — they're not gonna ban a guy for playing three events on the European Tour (still not calling it what it's called now).