LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[Shindig]

12 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

OGWR is the key to who plays.  As long as LIV players get no points, eventually they will have to go through the same qualifying process to play in a PGA event.

If they aren't able to block (as in, if a court prohibits the suspension, requiring the PGA Tour to allow someone to be a member of both), someone could play both LIV and PGA Tour and maintain both tour cards.  Although without overlapping events, that might be difficult.

And they'd play so many events, their families would be sure to miss them (or, in the case of Ian Poulter's family, will simply spend less time with them).

[iacas]

40 minutes ago, Shindig said:

Sounds like someone who wants golf tournaments to end 18 holes early.

Greg won the Saturday Slam, remember?

27 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

The LIV Tour is not going away, even if it ends up just a private tour.

Where do you get your material?

27 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

I suspect the PGA Tour probably can’t ban an otherwise qualified player from playing a PGA Tour event based on playing on the LIV Tour.

Hmmm. They did, though. You base this on… what?

27 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

OGWR is the key to who plays.  As long as LIV players get no points, eventually they will have to go through the same qualifying process to play in a PGA event.

If they're banned, or suspended, that isn't an option.

27 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

If they get awarded OWGR points from LIV events, that changes everything.

Can you tell us again about how Rory, Jordan, Justin, and someone else will enter a team into a LIV event?

😄

[Shindig]

19 minutes ago, iacas said:

Greg won the Saturday Slam, remember?

Indeed.  I'm definitely one to recycle jokes, and I think my two recurring jokes on this thread are "Greg Norman prefers 54 hole tournaments" (for the reason you mention) and that the biggest victims of LIV are Ian Poulter's family, because he'll have more time to spend with them.

[70sSanO]

As for the PGA Tour ban.  The easy part is banning players, the hard part is being able to maintain that ban in court.  Have no idea how that one plays out.

The Rory team was basically a thought that you ride into town, shoot it up, drink the whiskey, take the money, and ride away never to return.

The key is for the “best in the world” to embarrass the LIV Tour and never give the opportunity for a re-match.

However, if they lose, the LIV Tour, and Norman, brags.  Might be too much risk.

I see LIV lasting for as long as they want to spend the money.  Pretty simple.

John

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

As for the PGA Tour ban.  The easy part is banning players, the hard part is being able to maintain that ban in court.  Have no idea how that one plays out.

Who are you talking to? And it’s not in court. The DOJ is looking at it. That’s it. They did something similar in 1994 too.

25 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

The Rory team was basically a thought that you ride into town, shoot it up, drink the whiskey, take the money, and ride away never to return.

However, if they lose, the LIV Tour, and Norman, brags.  Might be too much risk.

Put down the bong, man. 😀

[70sSanO]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

Who are you talking to? And it’s not in court. The DOJ is looking at it. That’s it. They did something similar in 1994 too.

Put down the bong, man. 😀

I know it is not in court... at least not yet.  And I realize the DOJ looked into this in 1994.  They have also looked into profession sports leagues.

My guess, or SWAG, whichever you prefer, is that the PGA Tour might think they are on loose footing by suspending players in good standing, but as time goes on everyone of those players falls down Fedex and OWGR points they no longer have their card.  I believe DeChambeau even alluded to playing on the Asian(?) Tour to maintain points.

Keeping LIV out of OWGR is what is really important.  Without that recognition time is on the side of the PGA Tour.  Everything else is posturing.

John

[boogielicious]

14 hours ago, 70sSanO said:

I suspect the PGA Tour probably can’t ban an otherwise qualified player from playing a PGA Tour event based on playing on the LIV Tour.

I think they can. The LIV events don’t really qualify as a tournament. They are ‘mostly’ a tournament like the Dread Pirate Wesley was ‘mostly’ dead. So if they are not really a tournament, why should the PGA Tour allow people playing on them to qualify for a full tournament. The LIV tour made a big mistake In making their exhibitions 54 holes.

[woodzie264]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

I think they can. The LIV events don’t really qualify as a tournament. They are ‘mostly’ a tournament like the Dread Pirate Wesley was ‘mostly’ dead. So if they are not really a tournament, why should the PGA Tour all people playing on them to qualify for a full tournament. The LIV tour made a big mistake In making their exhibitions 54 holes.

Interesting point…I hadn’t seen/heard/thought of that yet. Those LIV guys aren’t playing real tournaments, so why should anything they do translate in a way the PGA Tour should recognize any of those performances as qualifying criteria for their tournaments.

[iacas]

Slippery slope calling them “not a tournament.”

[BruceMGF]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Slippery slope calling them “not a tournament.”

The problem is there are no qualifying criteria other than the Saudis like you.  They could invite a bunch of 20-handicappers, stage a "tournament", and demand OWGR points for their results.

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, BruceMGF said:

The problem is there are no qualifying criteria other than the Saudis like you.  They could invite a bunch of 20-handicappers, stage a "tournament", and demand OWGR points for their results.

It’s still a “tournament.”

[woodzie264]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Slippery slope calling them “not a tournament.”

I get it’s a tournament in the sense people are competing; I guess I was looking at if from the standpoint that a tournament in the eyes of the PGA Tour being a 72 hole event and so a 54 hole event wouldn’t qualify as a valid tournament.  That may not hold water, but that was my thinking.

[Pretzel]

2 minutes ago, woodzie264 said:

I get it’s a tournament in the sense people are competing; I guess I was looking at if from the standpoint that a tournament in the eyes of the PGA Tour being a 72 hole event and so a 54 hole event wouldn’t qualify as a valid tournament.  That may not hold water, but that was my thinking.

It doesn't hold any water to either the PGA Tour or the OWGR. The main argument in both of those cases would be strength of field, which is one aspect where most of the LIV events are not particularly exceptional or even good despite their attempts to get "the best of the best".

The more important factor to whether the tournaments would ever receive OWGR points is the fact that they're team events. Neither the Ryder Cup nor the President's Cup award OWGR points, so there isn't even really an established precedent for team events like this to receive ranking points. I don't believe they will be successful in their bid to have their tournaments award ranking points, but I suppose only time will tell.

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, woodzie264 said:

I get it’s a tournament in the sense people are competing; I guess I was looking at if from the standpoint that a tournament in the eyes of the PGA Tour being a 72 hole event and so a 54 hole event wouldn’t qualify as a valid tournament.  That may not hold water, but that was my thinking.

54 holes counts on the PGA Tour. If they play 54 holes, the money and the points earned are official.

The team aspect is irrelevant IMO. It’s tacked on, not like the Ryder Cup. Poor comparison.

Plus the PGA Tour has a team event!

[Pretzel]

In all honestly I hadn't paid enough attention to the actual LIV events to see if they had individual standings as well. Kind of hard to watch them when they change the method each time and/or chose YouTube of all streaming platforms to host their broadcast. 

That's the strangest part to me. Why dump all this money into players and not spend an equal amount on a broadcast slot somewhere so people could actually watch them play?

[imsys0042]

4 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

That's the strangest part to me. Why dump all this money into players and not spend an equal amount on a broadcast slot somewhere so people could actually watch them play?

Maybe broadcasting comes later.   I'm not sure who would take that contract.   Most of the major networks seem to have PGA Tour events broadcast and wouldn't want the conflict.   I saw that a number of sponsors are no longer on LIV players shirts and hats, presumably because it is both controversial and there are existing relationships with many of those sponsors and the PGA/DP tours.

[Friz]

22 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

That's the strangest part to me. Why dump all this money into players and not spend an equal amount on a broadcast slot somewhere so people could actually watch them play?

You're not supposed to pay a network to broadcast your product, you're supposed to sell your product to a network and receive money for them having the right to air it.  But regardless, a couple reasons they may do it this way

1 - A lot of the major networks are already partnered with the PGA Tour in the US, their deal is with CBS, NBC, and ESPN.  FOX could be an option, but they opted out of their Golf Media deal with the USGA in 2020 because of scheduling conflicts with the new US Open date that year and their football coverage, and likely wouldn't take a golf broadcast deal that would conflict with any of their football coverage in the fall.

2 - Doing the streaming thing allows them to provide coverage with no commercials.  They've done plenty to suggest they're not looking for revenue or profits, especially early on, so commercial free viewing could be enticing to a certain audience.

[70sSanO]

Golf is a tough watch for the casual fan.  Without that "you gotta see this guy" the parity has made it tough to establish the household names.

Seems like there is the initial splash of a player's success and then as the ripples subside so does the interest in that player, except for the die hard followers.

John