LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[70sSanO]

I would have to guess that if the field remains at 48, playing less golf events will hold true for many players.

Maybe a Suez Ferry Tour in the making.  A lot on bunkers.

John

[MSDOGS1976]

Hope the money is worth it because they're simply stooges for a rogue regime. 

[Sandy Lie]

So this is a reach, but here goes.  Americans and probably most people are hypocrites.

We gas up our cars and whine about the price of gas that we get from the Saudi’s (and other countries). Most of you know that petroleum is used in other products. Petroleum products are fuels made from crude oil and hydrocarbons contained in natural gas.
So plastics are made from petroleum as is asphalt, the list goes on. Look around your house, your workplace, your golf equipment😁

How many Yankee fans are out there?  You either love them or hate them. But let’s face it they have been the best team money can buy for years.  So what’s the difference between LIV and the PGA Tour?

The PGA has control over several tour in several countries. Are they a monopoly? I would say yes. So when a competitor comes along they get upset.

Do the Saudis have problems, you bet! How they treat women for instance, human rights, etc. Not a good track record, but we still buy products that are petroleum based. Click here: https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

I’m not saying look the other way, but competition breads change. Some are afraid of it. Some embrace it. I’ll go out on a limb and say in several years this won’t matter. Another level of competition will be born from this. Or maybe it just goes away.

I’m sure we won’t agree, and  I’m not trying to convince anyone that LIV is bad or good. But it’s here, players are jumping for money and other reasons. Condemning them doesn’t change anything. Am I disappointed? Mostly yes. Maybe it’s not a Gentleman’s game anymore.

 

[jmanbooyaa]

I get the money. Cam Smith made $28 million over 8 years. He was just given $100 million. Fine take the cash, but make it clear that is the reason. I still don’t think professional athletes are worth these prices but that is just how i feel. I simply do not enjoy the product Liv puts out. I tried watching 2 separate events and did not care for it. 

[Sandy Lie]

21 minutes ago, jmanbooyaa said:

I get the money. Cam Smith made $28 million over 8 years. He was just given $100 million. Fine take the cash, but make it clear that is the reason. I still don’t think professional athletes are worth these prices but that is just how i feel. I simply do not enjoy the product Liv puts out. I tried watching 2 separate events and did not care for it. 

I don’t like the format. Haven’t watched any of the events. I think as they get more players the format will change.  But I’m not going out of my way to watch it.

[iacas]

58 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

So this is a reach, but here goes.  Americans and probably most people are hypocrites.

We gas up our cars and whine about the price of gas that we get from the Saudi’s (and other countries). Most of you know that petroleum is used in other products. Petroleum products are fuels made from crude oil and hydrocarbons contained in natural gas.
So plastics are made from petroleum as is asphalt, the list goes on. Look around your house, your workplace, your golf equipment😁

How many Yankee fans are out there?  You either love them or hate them. But let’s face it they have been the best team money can buy for years.  So what’s the difference between LIV and the PGA Tour?

The PGA has control over several tour in several countries. Are they a monopoly? I would say yes. So when a competitor comes along they get upset.

Do the Saudis have problems, you bet! How they treat women for instance, human rights, etc. Not a good track record, but we still buy products that are petroleum based. Click here: https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

I’m not saying look the other way, but competition breads change. Some are afraid of it. Some embrace it. I’ll go out on a limb and say in several years this won’t matter. Another level of competition will be born from this. Or maybe it just goes away.

I’m sure we won’t agree, and  I’m not trying to convince anyone that LIV is bad or good. But it’s here, players are jumping for money and other reasons. Condemning them doesn’t change anything. Am I disappointed? Mostly yes. Maybe it’s not a Gentleman’s game anymore.

Buying gas does not rise to the level of “hypocrite.” No.

[Sandy Lie]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

Buying gas does not rise to the level of “hypocrite.” No.

Disagree.

[Moxley]

1 hour ago, Sandy Lie said:

So this is a reach, but here goes.  Americans and probably most people are hypocrites.

We gas up our cars and whine about the price of gas that we get from the Saudi’s (and other countries). Most of you know that petroleum is used in other products. Petroleum products are fuels made from crude oil and hydrocarbons contained in natural gas.
So plastics are made from petroleum as is asphalt, the list goes on. Look around your house, your workplace, your golf equipment😁

How many Yankee fans are out there?  You either love them or hate them. But let’s face it they have been the best team money can buy for years.  So what’s the difference between LIV and the PGA Tour?

The PGA has control over several tour in several countries. Are they a monopoly? I would say yes. So when a competitor comes along they get upset.

Do the Saudis have problems, you bet! How they treat women for instance, human rights, etc. Not a good track record, but we still buy products that are petroleum based. Click here: https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

I’m not saying look the other way, but competition breads change. Some are afraid of it. Some embrace it. I’ll go out on a limb and say in several years this won’t matter. Another level of competition will be born from this. Or maybe it just goes away.

I’m sure we won’t agree, and  I’m not trying to convince anyone that LIV is bad or good. But it’s here, players are jumping for money and other reasons. Condemning them doesn’t change anything. Am I disappointed? Mostly yes. Maybe it’s not a Gentleman’s game anymore.

 

Overall I agree, and petroleum products is only part of it. Our own sport was already taking Saudi money via sponsorship and holding tournaments in countries with similarly bad human rights issues before LIV. 

Sure, you can make a distinction and say that the pure Saudi product is worse than the watered down product if you like, but the reality is that it's a lot more blurred than many people will admit.

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Moxley

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

Disagree.

Okay. Cool.

Do we have much of a choice? Plus some gas comes from the US or elsewhere.

They’re not the same.

[Moxley]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

The only one that really matters: Cam Smith. And he matters, but also… don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on the way out.

I think this is a really good haul from Liv's perspective, and a moderately damaging one from the PGAs. 

Smith is obviously huge , everyone acknowledges that, but Niemann is big too given that his best days are very likely ahead of him. 

 

Leishman and Lahiri, though not huge names, add to the haul of players from outside Europe/USA where LIV could really become dominant.

 

[Sandy Lie]

Just now, iacas said:

Okay. Cool.

Do we have much of a choice? Plus some gas comes from the US or elsewhere.

They’re not the same.

I did mention that I believe.   Not much of a choice for sure when it comes to oil purchases.

The PGA is very passionate right now about LIV. I laughed when Rory mentioned that when seeing the 18 players at the BMW it will make him sick, nauseated! Turning on old friends for decisions they make that differ from their own positions shouldn’t kill that relationship. What we don’t know is if they have had private discussions. We probably will never know.

p.s. Potato Chip bags are made of polypropylene and lined with aluminum. LOL.

[GolfLug]

So if we were all flocking over to the 'Saudi gas station' over the local but more expensive one then I would agree it is hypocritical to abandon the right thing over a few pennies. But there is NOT a choice is there? If you want to blame the US Gov then have at it. I will gladly spend $100/month more to not have to purchase Saudi oil if given a choice. 

It is not righteous posturing to condemn the LIV defectors have a very very very good choice they are choosing to screw over. I love Rory for standing up and not mincing words. 

The PGAT monopoly argument continues to be laughable.  It would be a monopoly if any professional player joining the ranks would have no option but to play for the PGAT. There are a hundred other tours out there they can and do live on. But calling them a monopoly because they won't let these players ride two boats at any one moment in time is warping the monopoly meaning.  

I will agree that the PGAT has needed a makeover for a while and there is no denying LIV forced their hand in doing so. 

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Sandy Lie said:

Disagree.

I find it hard to believe you see a global economic collapse to not do business with an unfavorable regime to sustain basic living comparable to some athletes suffering only being really rich instead of super rich as the same. Come on.

[Sandy Lie]

2 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I find it hard to believe you see a global economic collapse to not do business with an unfavorable regime to sustain basic living comparable to some athletes suffering only being really rich instead of super rich as the same. Come on.

A global collapse, I never said that.  We have been doing business with Countries that we don’t agree with for decades. 

[Zeph]

How do you avoid Saudi oil today? If you couldn’t purchase anything oil or gas related since you usually can’t know where it came from, there wouldn’t be a lot left. Petroleum products are everywhere and an integral part of today’s world.

Buying petroleum products and joining LIV is not the same thing.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Moxley said:

Leishman and Lahiri, though not huge names, add to the haul of players from outside Europe/USA where LIV could really become dominant.

Go figure - the PGA Tour doesn't have the same hold in the hearts and minds of people who grew up in other countries than the U.S.

Leishman is 38. Anirban Lahiri is 92nd in OWGR and… hasn't really done much of note. They're not big losses for the PGA Tour.

2 hours ago, Sandy Lie said:

The PGA is very passionate right now

The PGA Tour might be. The PGA… not so much.

2 hours ago, Sandy Lie said:

Turning on old friends for decisions they make that differ from their own positions shouldn’t kill that relationship.

This from the guy who said buying gas made everyone hypocrites? Dude. Friendships are killed over far, far, FAR less than aligning yourself with a murderous regime to help them sports wash while turning your backs on the group that created the platform that allowed you to succeed and rise to prominence to begin with.

As Cam Tringale pointed out in his ridiculous letter… "Thanks for the platform you created that I used to rise to fame and fortune despite never once even winning… and now when I stab this knife into your back you may feel a small pinch…"

Friendships have been lost over what sports team someone roots for, for crying out loud.

40 minutes ago, Zeph said:

Buying petroleum products and joining LIV is not the same thing.

Common sense often ain't so common.

[Sandy Lie]

1 hour ago, Zeph said:

How do you avoid Saudi oil today? If you couldn’t purchase anything oil or gas related since you usually can’t know where it came from, there wouldn’t be a lot left. Petroleum products are everywhere and an integral part of today’s world.

Buying petroleum products and joining LIV is not the same thing.

You can’t.  No its not. But the source the money comes from Mohammed bin Salam.  This guy is the crown prince, deputy prime minister, and minister of defense of Saudi Arabia. He also serves as the chairman of the Council of Economic and Development Affairs and chairman of the Council of Political and Security Affairs. He is the seventh son of King Salman bin Abdulaziz and the eldest of six sons born to King Salman's third wife, Fahda bint Falah Al Hithlain. Mohammed bin Salman controls his father's government and is considered the de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia.

Essentially he funds the LIV Tour. And I wouldn’t piss him off.

33 minutes ago, iacas said:

Go figure - the PGA Tour doesn't have the same hold in the hearts and minds of people who grew up in other countries than the U.S.

Leishman is 38. Anirban Lahiri is 92nd in OWGR and… hasn't really done much of note. They're not big losses for the PGA Tour.

The PGA Tour might be. The PGA… not so much.

This from the guy who said buying gas made everyone hypocrites? Dude. Friendships are killed over far, far, FAR less than aligning yourself with a murderous regime to help them sports wash while turning your backs on the group that created the platform that allowed you to succeed and rise to prominence to begin with.

As Cam Tringale pointed out in his ridiculous letter… "Thanks for the platform you created that I used to rise to fame and fortune despite never once even winning… and now when I stab this knife into your back you may feel a small pinch…"

Friendships have been lost over what sports team someone roots for, for crying out loud.

Common sense often ain't so common.

The hypocrisy here is we condemn Saudi Arabia then fill our cars full of gas.  The US does it all the time. We buy about 16% of our Uranium from Russia. The US is currently banning all Energy Imports from Russia except….Uranium. No matter the issues we have with other countries trade still continues. 
In regard to PGA vs LIV and citing Human Rights, blood money it gets on everyone’s hands indirectly.

Please read this: 

Entire PGA Tour Playoffs Sponsored By Saudi Arabia-Allied Brands - Pro Golf Weekly

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The PGA Tour has regularly attacked the LIV Golf series for being funded by Saudi Arabia. According to the Tour's allied smear merchants, the checks earned by the likes...

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

The hypocrisy here is we condemn Saudi Arabia then fill our cars full of gas.

You're not getting it.

And telling me to "please read this" implies that you've discovered something we don't know, and I can tell you very much that this is not the case, and that equating "buying gas" with what Cam Smith or whomever does for MBS is a folly.

And… "allied smear merchants"? Oy.

If you can't see the difference between this:

Quote

For instance, the Tour’s biggest of all brands, FedEx – the title sponsor of the season-long FedEx Cup race and the postseason’s first tournament (FedEx St Jude Championship), has a “direct presence in Saudi Arabia,” according to tweet last year.

… and directly taking money from the Saudi PIF, then I don't know what to tell you.

Jeez. Heck, we have a Saudi Arabian member here too. OH NOES, TST is aligned with MBS, too!

Cripes.