2020 The Players Championship

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, snapfade said:

Those you can, do. Those who can't, teach.

A stupid saying.

[snapfade]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

A stupid saying.

No, it's a fact. Some people are better at teaching a sport than playing the sport. And that comes from their experience, their study of the sport and their knowledge. Brandle Chamblee is a prime example. He was a run of the mill player who's claim to fame is he held a share of the lead at Augusta in 1999, and won one Tour event. I don't think he's going to be in the Hall of Fame as a player. However, he has parlayed his experience and knowledge of golf into being a respected commentator for the Golf Chanel. Another example, how many people know Butch Harmon won one PGA Tour event? He obviously is a better teacher than he was a tour player or he would have won more or played longer. It is not an insult by any means. I have never seen your name on a PGA Tour leader board, but that doesn't mean you are not a well respected and sought after instructor and author. There may be underlying reasons on why you chose instruction over a career on a professional tour and that's your personal thing and non of my business, but it is just an example. Again, it is not an insult at all.  

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, snapfade said:

No, it's a fact.

Bullshit.

Not the part I quoted. Not by a long stretch.

It’s a stupid saying that demeans teachers. It’s incorrect.

[snapfade]

If you think it's demeaning that's you choice to make. I disagree. It's not a knock on your progression in my opinion. I actually follow your advice and other instructors as well. But there is a reason they, including yourself, are not Tour professionals for one reason or another. And lack of ability to compete at that level is one reason. Doesn't mean they suck at teaching. 

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, snapfade said:

If you think it's demeaning that's you choice to make. I disagree. It's not a knock on your progression in my opinion. I actually follow your advice and other instructors as well. But there is a reason they, including yourself, are not Tour professionals for one reason or another. And lack of ability to compete at that level is one reason. Doesn't mean they suck at teaching. 

If you think tour professionals are good teachers, I've got a bridge to sell you.

There are guys like Bubba Watson who can't teach because they learned by just hitting balls over and over again. Then there are other guys who have had one coach their entire lives and can't teach because they only know one way of going about things. Then there's the vast majority of the rest of them that can't teach because feel isn't real and while they can describe their feeling, they can't effectively communicate that to find the correct feeling for their student. 

Teaching something is an entirely different skill set than doing it, and in many cases requires the ability to do it and then some. University professors can certainly do everything they teach about, or else they wouldn't know enough to teach it. In the same way a quality golf instructor can do all of the things they teach, in terms of changing swings and hitting different kinds of shots. They may not be as consistent as the top pros in the same way a chemistry professor may not have memorized specific formulas the way a lab chemist has, but the breadth of knowledge is much wider because they have to be able to do it as well as know how to teach it. If you can't do something in golf you'll never be able to communicate and teach it effectively.

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, snapfade said:

If you think it's demeaning that's you choice to make. I disagree. It's not a knock on your progression in my opinion. I actually follow your advice and other instructors as well. But there is a reason they, including yourself, are not Tour professionals for one reason or another. And lack of ability to compete at that level is one reason. Doesn't mean they suck at teaching. 

I have a masters in Chemical Engineering and have been one since 1982. I also teach and train people at my work. Does that mean I can’t engineer? That is a tired old expression meant to demean teachers, especially in education. 
 

Some excellent golf instructors never wanted to be on tour. It is a grind for all but the top. It is a hard life if you are a journeyman. But teaching allows you to stay in the sport you love and some find it very rewarding. Plus, there is only a handful of members on this forum who might be able to beat Erik and most of them are or were instructors.
 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, snapfade said:

If you think it's demeaning that's you choice to make.

No, it's demeaning, belittling. I don't get to call you a name or belittle what you do as some sort of fall-back plan because you failed at something else and then say "If you think that's demeaning it's your choice to make."

2 hours ago, snapfade said:

It's not a knock on your progression in my opinion.

Except that it is.

2 hours ago, snapfade said:

I actually follow your advice and other instructors as well. But there is a reason they, including yourself, are not Tour professionals for one reason or another.

Here's a clue for you: I never f***ing tried to be a Tour player, or play professionally, or anything like that. I didn't even play in college, because the coach didn't care about putting the best team out there that he could.

What I am is a +1 (despite hardly ever getting to play or practice, so right there I'm better than 99% of golfers or whatever and can "do" pretty damn well) who is better at instruction than many of the Tour guys are at playing golf.

2 hours ago, snapfade said:

And lack of ability to compete at that level is one reason.

No, it isn't.

2 hours ago, snapfade said:

Doesn't mean they suck at teaching. 

That's not how anyone takes it, nor what makes it belittling.

---

So, again, stop saying that. It's demeaning and wrong. Give me a choice between being a PGA Tour player and teaching and I'll choose the latter, not because I failed at the former, but because it's what I want to do. What I enjoy most.

And again, in case it wasn't clear, I can "do" pretty damn well, too.

You owe me an apology. I won't wait around for it, though, and I'll move on and forget about this in short order, too.

[snapfade]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

No, it's demeaning, belittling. I don't get to call you a name or belittle what you do as some sort of fall-back plan because you failed at something else and then say "If you think that's demeaning it's your choice to make."

Except that it is.

Here's a clue for you: I never f***ing tried to be a Tour player, or play professionally, or anything like that. I didn't even play in college, because the coach didn't care about putting the best team out there that he could.

What I am is a +1 (despite hardly ever getting to play or practice, so right there I'm better than 99% of golfers or whatever and can "do" pretty damn well) who is better at instruction than many of the Tour guys are at playing golf.

No, it isn't.

That's not how anyone takes it, nor what makes it belittling.

---

So, again, stop saying that. It's demeaning and wrong. Give me a choice between being a PGA Tour player and teaching and I'll choose the latter, not because I failed at the former, but because it's what I want to do. What I enjoy most.

And again, in case it wasn't clear, I can "do" pretty damn well, too.

You owe me an apology. I won't wait around for it, though, and I'll move on and forget about this in short order, too.

I was in no way at all in my thinking, trying to belittle you or any other person who teaches golf for a living. If it came across as that to you then of course I apologize, but I honestly didn't mean it in a disrespecting way. 

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, snapfade said:

If it came across as that to you then of course I apologize, but I honestly didn't mean it in a disrespecting way. 

Again, it's not a matter of "how it came across to me." That's how it comes off, period, full stop. Fact.

[billchao]

29 minutes ago, snapfade said:

I was in no way at all in my thinking, trying to belittle you or any other person who teaches golf for a living. If it came across as that to you then of course I apologize, but I honestly didn't mean it in a disrespecting way. 

It seems to me like you don’t quite understand the idiom. I believe it came from one of George Bernard Shaw’s works, and it’s purpose quite literally is to disparage teachers. His reasoning is that people who can will pursue a career in their field and those who can’t make it in the field end up teaching it.

It, like most idioms, are simplistic generalizations that fail to hold water under the slightest scrutiny. Teaching in of itself is a career pursuit for many people, not a fallback option.

[leftybutnotPM]

19 hours ago, billchao said:

It seems to me like you don’t quite understand the idiom. I believe it came from one of George Bernard Shaw’s works, and it’s purpose quite literally is to disparage teachers. His reasoning is that people who can will pursue a career in their field and those who can’t make it in the field end up teaching it.

It, like most idioms, are simplistic generalizations that fail to hold water under the slightest scrutiny. Teaching in of itself is a career pursuit for many people, not a fallback option.

100% correct.

If a school student wasn't happy in class and said something like "My mother said those who can do and those who can't teach." it would be offensive in the extreme. There is no greater insult to a teacher. It's basically saying "You're shit."

It is NOT saying, "You aren't a great painter, but gee you're  a great art teacher!" The expression is not nuanced, it is not adaptable, it is an offensive and ignorant insult. Pure and simple.

[Buckeyebowman]

Consider Davis Love II, DL III's Father. Many thought he had all the talent in the world, and could succeed on the Tour. But he didn't want to play the Tour, he wanted to teach. He loved to teach! So that's what he dedicated himself to. A good teacher is something to be treasured and respected.