Your Mind Doesn't Understand "No"… Or Does It?

[Vinsk]

I think it’s pretty silly really. This idea ‘ think what you want to do ...not what you don’t want to do.’ Garbage. It’s like when a lawyer says ‘object’ to something and the judge says ‘ disregard that information.’. Is the information really disregarded from the juror’s minds? Of course not. When I’m nervous and feel a shank coming on..I can think as positive as I want ....but the only thing that will give me any assurance is to not shank it. And that’s completely out of my control.

[dennyjones]

If you changed the scenario to a hot stove burner, we'd all agree we've learned the difference between do and do not.   While I think that the thought could be put in your head about hitting toward a hazard, the brain is smart enough to differentiate. 

My wife has me trained to know the difference!

I voted accordingly.

[Missouri Swede]

My dog understands "no," but I don't?

[gbogey]

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I think we DO differentiate between DO and DO NOT.  However, I think the best way to approach a shot in golf is to focus on what you DO want to do.  

I'm with @saevel25, to some extent the DO NOT evaluation induces fear or uncertainty.  I believe its better to approach a golf shot with a positive attitude and a positive goal.

Totally agree.  I used to play with one friend, pretty big hacker, who upon hearing "do not" could not hit it anywhere else.  Made a conscious effort to tell him "to do" and it made a huge difference.

[ChetlovesMer]

2 hours ago, dennyjones said:

My wife has me trained to know the difference!

Ding!

I remember when my wife and I were expecting our first kid we took all the classes and stuff. One of the things I remember (and I know my wife remembers because she reminds me all the time.) from those parenting classes was one instructor said you should never say "Don't drop that" to a child. Because, according to this instructor, the child's brain may never have even thought that dropping it was an option. Now, the child has to fight against the newly introduced information, of course, they drop it. Again, according to this instructor, you are supposed to say "Hang on to that." Or "Hold that carefully." etc...

Similarly, you weren't supposed to say:

• "Don't touch that." Instead "Keep your fingers back." or "Keep your hands away from that."
• "Don't get lost." Instead "Stay with us." or "Stay where you can see me." 
• "Don't forget to wash your hands." Instead "Remember to wash your hands." 
• "Don't be mean." Instead say "Be kind." 

Anyhow, my wife has me pretty well trained to do this with my children. 

I would argue, however, that a child's mind and a full grown golfer's mind work differently. I've also read that different people react differently to the power of suggestion. So, it may depend on you. 

 

 

[iacas]

That's like clicker training a dog. There are infinite numbers of bad things the dog can do, but only about 10 or 15 "good" things a dog can do, so training the dog to do those 10 or 15 things more often means they don't have the time (or thoughts?) of doing the "bad" things.

[ChetlovesMer]

34 minutes ago, iacas said:

That's like clicker training a dog. There are infinite numbers of bad things the dog can do, but only about 10 or 15 "good" things a dog can do, so training the dog to do those 10 or 15 things more often means they don't have the time (or thoughts?) of doing the "bad" things.

So, can we clicker train a golfer. 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

So, can we clicker train a golfer. 

Might be on to something.

[ChetlovesMer]

I can see it now. You are about to tee off. Your caddie turns to you and says "The forests are dark; The forests are deep; You must hit the fairway before you sleep." 

           - I hope there's somebody on this forum old enough to get that reference. 

[CarlSpackler]

9 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I can see it now. You are about to tee off. Your caddie turns to you and says "The forests are dark; The forests are deep; You must hit the fairway before you sleep." 

           - I hope there's somebody on this forum old enough to get that reference. 

Not me. 

[ChetlovesMer]

4 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

Not me. 

I think I 'effed up the quote anyway.

Should have been: "The woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep, and one fairway to hit before I sleep." 

[Papa Steve 55]

18 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I think I 'effed up the quote anyway.

Should have been: "The woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep, and one fairway to hit before I sleep." 

Just dont say it on the first hole.

[ChetlovesMer]

It's obviously Robert Frost, but it is also from the movie "Telefon". It's a 70's movie staring Charlies Bronson and Donald Pleasence. The story is similar to The Manchurian Candidate. Basically they program a bunch of Soviet Sleeper Cell Folks to do something (normally something destructive) when they hear that line from the poem. 

I remember thinking the movie was cool when I was a kid in the 70's. Basically Donald Pleasence is going around trying to set off all of these folks who have been programmed to do what ever. I don't remember his motivation, maybe he just wanted to watch the world burn. Charles Bronson is trying to hunt him down before he sets off all the sleepers. 

Anyway, I went a long way for that. I was just picturing programming people to hit the fairway when set off by a catch phrase or a clicker. 

[CarlSpackler]

26 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

"The woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep, and one fairway to hit before I sleep." 

I still got nothing. Before my time I suppose. 😉

7 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Anyway, I went a long way for that. I was just picturing programming people to hit the fairway when set off by a catch phrase or a clicker. 

On the whole clicker training thing, the click has to associated with a reward. For my dogs, it's a treat. Actually, it's just a piece of dog food in my pocket, but don't tell them that. If @iacas is going to use that, perhaps M&Ms or Reese's Pieces would work to accompany the click.

[ChetlovesMer]

4 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

If @iacas is going to use that, perhaps M&Ms or Reese's Pieces would work to accompany the click.

I'm partial to the Almond M&M's myself. ... hmmm.... yummy.

[dennyjones]

Road trip to Erie for M&Ms?

[CarlSpackler]

4 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I'm partial to the Almond M&M's myself. ... hmmm.... yummy.

 

3 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

Road trip to Erie for M&Ms?

So there is the solution to this thread. Don't doesn't mean a thing, and M&M's are the true path to golf enlightenment.

Another problem solved.

[Big C]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

Sure, and IIRC he does suggest that. I also think he suggests not even ever worrying about "do not" things, which I disagree with, and I also think he's wrong about the base: I can think "do not" and NEVER move on to the "do" target and still not hit it there any more than the statistical likelihood of a horrible shot.

If I'm standing next to a building to my right, I can think about the building and "don't hit it right, don't hit it right" and I'm gonna pull the crap out of the ball, I'm not going to hit it right.

I don't think the bold part above is an accurate representation of Rotella's message. It's been awhile since I have read the book but I believe he acknowledges that you have to understand the layout of the hole - including the "trouble spots" - before you pick an affirmative target. And really, how could any right thinking person seriously argue otherwise?

As to the poll question, I have no idea what my sub-conscious mind does or does not hear, so all I can do is speculate. But I remember that this particular chapter of the book rung true to me when I read it. I've had one too many cases of doing exactly what I told myself not to do, that it's hard for me to feel otherwise. I voted "yes."