DeChambeau's Short Game

[KevinBlake]

his wedge game is woefully short in relation to his world ranking. Plus Bryson is tied in sand saves for 201st on the tour, with -hy do you think that is?

 

One reason I can think of is his jumbo grips are taking the feel out of his pitch & chip shots 

Edited June 9, 2021 by KevinBlake

[measureoffsetinnm]

Practing short game is boring and Bryson does not do boring well.

Edited June 9, 2021 by measureoffsetinnm

[ncates00]

1 hour ago, KevinBlake said:

his wedge game is woefully short

Not really. He’s 50th on Tour in SG around the green. He’s gaining .216 against the field around the green. Besides, while shots around the green are important to saving strokes, there’s not as much SV in even shots around the green as there is in the tee game and approach play. In fact, the top SG around the green guy is Fabian Gomez with .800. Other than him, most of the guys are pretty bunched.
 

On the other hand, Bryson leads the Tour with a whopping 1.109 SG off the tee alone. I would say Bryson needs to improve his SG approach because, while he ranks 46th and gaining .360 against the field (higher than his wedges), there is more SV and more SG he could gain. For instance, Morikawa leads this department with nearly 1.5 SG and there are several others around 1 SG against the field. This demonstrates that there is plenty of room for improvement (and strokes to be gained) here because, again, ballstriking has higher SV than even shots around the green, which is a slightly lower-tiered skill. 
 

It’s simple math and data analysis, really. Bryson knows the data and what helps him compete. But, I agree that he needs to improve his game, but we disagree as to which category. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by ncates00

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Not really. He’s 50th on Tour in SG around the green. He’s gaining .216 against the field around the green. Besides, while shots around the green are important to saving strokes, there’s not as much SV in even shots around the green as there is in the tee game and approach play. In fact, the top SG around the green guy is Fabian Gomez with .800. Other than him, most of the guys are pretty bunched.

SG:ATG is also a cumulative stat with different numbers of opportunities.

If you miss 18 greens in a round, you have 18 chances to gain strokes "ATG." If you hit all 18 greens, you have fewer opportunities. So someone with an equal short game who has a better long game will be below the other person, despite having the same short game abilities.

[measureoffsetinnm]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

SG:ATG is also a cumulative stat with different numbers of opportunities.

If you miss 18 greens in a round, you have 18 chances to gain strokes "ATG." If you hit all 18 greens, you have fewer opportunities. So someone with an equal short game who has a better long game will be below the other person, despite having the same short game abilities.

Is this the only SG category where performance on other shots can skew the meaning in that way? For example, does BDC's tour leading SG/Driving reduce his potential to gain strokes on approach shots?

[Billy Z]

Too many muscles that are diminishing his feel around the green. Btw, where has he been lately? I don't notice him on the leader board. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Billy Z

[iacas]

58 minutes ago, measureoffsetinnm said:

Is this the only SG category where performance on other shots can skew the meaning in that way? For example, does BDC's tour leading SG/Driving reduce his potential to gain strokes on approach shots?

Yes.

[ChetlovesMer]

11 hours ago, KevinBlake said:

One reason I can think of is his jumbo grips are taking the feel out of his pitch & chip shots 

I was wondering something similar. Only my question wasn't the huge grips. My question was: Do the one-length clubs hurt him? 
His wedges are longer than most everyone else. (7-iron length) So, it helps him generate more clubhead speed with his wedges when he's in the cabbage. But wouldn't having your hands further from the ball also diminish your ability to bullseye highly precise shots?

[klineka]

11 hours ago, KevinBlake said:

his wedge game is woefully short in relation to his world ranking. 

3 out of the 4 people ahead of Bryson in the OWGR (DJ, Rahm, Morikawa) all rank worse than Bryson in SG Around the Green. Are you going to call them out too?

[saevel25]

12 hours ago, KevinBlake said:

One reason I can think of is his jumbo grips are taking the feel out of his pitch & chip shots 

Grips don't matter that much. It is just personal preference. 

Also, scrambling also has a lot to do with putting. He is T106th in proximity to the hole from the sand...

Proximity to Hole from Sand | PGA TOUR Stats

He is 50th in sand save percentage... (Not sure where you got 201st?)

Sand Save Percentage | PGA TOUR Stats

This tells me he's a pretty decent putter from his sand save proximity range. 

What matters more is proximity to the hole. If you get the ball inside of 8-FT all the time, you are going to have better than a 50% scrambling on the PGA Tour. 

 

[ChetlovesMer]

3 hours ago, Billy Z said:

Btw, where has he been lately? I don't notice him on the leader board. 

Seriously, You know he's ranked 5th in the world? That means out of 7.7 billion people walking the planet he is better at golf than.... well, pretty much 7.7 billion of them. 

[Brock]

I guess I don’t consider wedge game shots around the green. 
 

He’s just not that highly ranked in approaches ~100 yards in. 

13 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Seriously, You know he's ranked 5th in the world? That means out of 7.7 billion people walking the planet he is better at golf than.... well, pretty much 7.7 billion of them. 

Not particular to BD but I wouldn’t say OWGR is always a real good indicator of a players most recent form. And typically comparisons of value are made within a profession and not world population. 

[klineka]

7 hours ago, Brock said:

I guess I don’t consider wedge game shots around the green. 

I didnt either until @KevinBlake specifically mentioned Bryson's sand saves and pitch/chip shots while not mentioning anything about approach shots with wedges.

[KevinBlake]

I wonder if the reason his approach shots from 100 yards in are poor is  because the longer club length causing extra clubhead speed is unsuited to the wedges, he mentioned before the ball has a habit of running up the face and delivering variable outcomes with these high loft clubs at faster clubhead speeds

[ncates00]

7 minutes ago, KevinBlake said:

I wonder if the reason his approach shots from 100 yards in are poor is  because the longer club length causing extra clubhead speed is unsuited to the wedges, he mentioned before the ball has a habit of running up the face and delivering variable outcomes with these high loft clubs at faster clubhead speeds

Maybe. Or maybe the guys who rank higher are simply better at it than he is. Hard to be great at everything. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by ncates00

[klineka]

22 minutes ago, KevinBlake said:

I wonder if the reason his approach shots from 100 yards in are poor is  because the longer club length causing extra clubhead speed is unsuited to the wedges, he mentioned before the ball has a habit of running up the face and delivering variable outcomes with these high loft clubs at faster clubhead speeds

And yet for proximity of approaches from > 200yds he's ranked 2nd on tour. And SG Off the Tee he's first, gaining almost a quarter of a stroke more per round than the next closest guy.

Everyone has weaknesses including the players near the top of the OWGR, and as I pointed out yesterday (which you conveniently ignored and shifted the goal post to his approach shots 100yds and in) , his short game around the greens this year has actually been better than most of the guys ahead of him in the OWGR.

The fact that he can be as competitive as he is with a pretty poor wedge game means that if/when he gets that part dialed in even to just tour average levels, he could start winning and being near the top of the leaderboard more often than he already is.

Edited June 10, 2021 by klineka

[Missouri Swede]

7 hours ago, ncates00 said:

Hard to be great at everything. 

I keep having to remind myself of this. 

[Shorty]

On 6/9/2021 at 8:28 PM, Billy Z said:

Too many muscles that are diminishing his feel around the green. Btw, where has he been lately? I don't notice him on the leader board. 

Do you ever wonder why some of your posts confuse people?