Cleveland Guardians

[Shorty]

4 hours ago, David in FL said:

I’ll pass that along to him and his people.  👍

Does it occur to you that your friend is not the arbiter of what is or isn't appropriate?  He is one man with an opinion. And you seem to think that that trumps anyone else's. You may as well say that I as an Australian, represent everyone in my country and have the final say over anything to do with my country. 

Funny how this is similar to you you thinking that Florida is doing great on Covid - but then you'd know, so we'll defer to you, in spite of the numbers and facts.

You are passive aggressive and a troll. Actually, I don't think you are a troll. I fear you believe your own simplistic arguments.

For your information, the Chief Wahoo image is part of an exhibit at the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Shorty

[boogielicious]

5 hours ago, David in FL said:

I’ll pass that along to him and his people.  👍

You keep digging yourself deeper in the hole dude. I find it pathetic that a white guy from Wisconsin gets so upset about this name change. Move on and stop embarrassing yourself.

[David in FL]

12 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

You keep digging yourself deeper in the hole dude. I find it pathetic that a white guy from Wisconsin gets so upset about this name change. Move on and stop embarrassing yourself.

I’m simply sharing the thoughts and perspective of people who’s opinions on the subject seem to be a lot more relevant than yours and mine.

I’m not at all embarrassed because you disagree with them.

Edited July 31, 2021 by David in FL

[boogielicious]

18 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I’m simply sharing the thoughts and perspective of people who’s opinions on the subject seem to be a lot more relevant than yours and mine.

I’m not at all embarrassed because you disagree with them.

Bullshit. You’re trolling. Did you poll any other native Americans or just the ones who would agree with your take? Or maybe your ‘friend’ just agreed with you because they are tired of your endless whining. Stop embarrassing yourself with your ‘silliness’.

[imsys0042]

6 hours ago, David in FL said:

I talked to my buddy, 100% Navajo, about this thread.  His response was to shake his head, laugh and say “Leave it to the arrogant white man to tell us what we should be offended by…”

Just thought I’d share.  I’m sure the arrogant white men here will continue to tell him he’s wrong though…  😂

 

Well the only thing in that response that is that it’s correct that people shouldn’t assume that Native Americans are sitting around fuming about this.  And personally that wouldn’t be my concern here.   While it’s important to try and consider the feelings of others (try it some time!), I personally don’t think that what this country did to Native Americans was right and I don’t think we should be using a name like that.  As we grow as a culture (try it some time!) we find these things and need to evaluate whether we are going to far, or not enough to have an inclusive society.  Or even just trying to be respectful.   
 

whether the people you know feel differently, we’ll that’s fine.   That’s their opinion and that’s mine.

please post your address so I can send you a mirror.  It might help with being able to see the opinion of arrogant white men.

 

[Hardspoon]

On 7/31/2021 at 1:13 AM, David in FL said:

His response was to shake his head, laugh and say “Leave it to the arrogant white man to tell us what we should be offended by…”

No one is telling him what to be offended by. This makes no sense. 

[iacas]

 

[Double Mocha Man]

Interesting.  I don't see the chop going away for 100 years.  It will be handed down through generations.  Though I still want the Braves to beat the cheating Astros.

(Now back to chopping down the Robert E. Lee statuette in my front yard)

[ChetlovesMer]

On 7/24/2021 at 12:21 PM, Shindig said:

Spiders would have been great.  "Cleveland Baseball Team" would have been terrible.  But on the animals front, I don't understand why some of the scariest animals don't have as many sports teams named after them.  I realize not many people want a sports team named Candiru, even though they are plenty scary.  I understand why many universities wouldn't want a scary animal as its mascot, but among professional sports teams, I can think of two named after snakes and none named after arachnids.  

I kinda liked the idea of Spiders... They catch flies... Like fly balls.... Too much of a stretch? 

I like the new name. I like the change. 

[ChetlovesMer]

On 7/25/2021 at 9:49 PM, Hardspoon said:

Nah, you’re the over-sensitive one.

A professional team changed its name to have a broader, more universal appeal. Cool. It’s their decision to make.

People like you get butt-hurt about it and think it’s some culture war or something. Stop being so sensitive. 

I tend to agree with this point. 

Why are people sad to see the old name go away? The name was never a great idea. The logo was worse. Times change. People grow up. As a society we learn. Many many teams have changed names over the years for lots of different reasons. 

 

[klineka]

I'm interested to see what happens with the lawsuit with the roller derby team

[ChetlovesMer]

45 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Interesting.  I don't see the chop going away for 100 years.  It will be handed down through generations.  Though I still want the Braves to beat the cheating Astros.

Interestingly enough. The Braves were/are the reason I originally started watching sports with the sound turned off. A practice I've continued for the last 25 years now. I simply couldn't stand hearing that F-ing chop. ... Now, I never turn the sound on for sporting events... if I watch them at all. Although, I've heard the Monday Night thing that the Mannings are doing is pretty cool. I may have to give it a listen one of these nights. 

5 minutes ago, klineka said:

I'm interested to see what happens with the lawsuit with the roller derby team

The roller derby team has no chance in this lawsuit. They are just hoping for at least a few dollars in an out of court settlement. They probably figure its a good time for a money grab as the baseball team will probably pay them not to have to actually go to court over this. There are plenty of other teams which have the same mascots: 

Cardinals – Arizona (football), St. Louis (baseball)
Giants – San Francisco (baseball), New York (football)
Jets – New York (football), Winnipeg (hockey)
Kings – Los Angeles (hockey), Sacramento (basketball)
Lions – Detroit (football), British Columbia (Canadian football)
Panthers – Florida (hockey), Carolina (football)
Rangers – New York (hockey), Texas (baseball)

[mcanadiens]

7 minutes ago, klineka said:

I'm interested to see what happens with the lawsuit with the roller derby team

Now that's funny.

Personally, I thought the Guardians name was a little dorky to begin with. Hilarious that they ripped it off a roller derby team.

There's only one Cleveland Guardians! 

[klineka]

16 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

The roller derby team has no chance in this lawsuit. They are just hoping for at least a few dollars in an out of court settlement. They probably figure its a good time for a money grab as the baseball team will probably pay them not to have to actually go to court over this. 

I disagree.

Quote

"On April 8, 2021, the team surreptitiously filed a trademark application for the CLEVELAND GUARDIANS name in the small, East African island nation of Mauritius, effectively hiding the application unless one knew where to look," it reads.

Then, in June, the Indians, through lawyers, got in contact with the Guardians roller derby team to let them know the name was under consideration. It requested pictures of jerseys and other designs as it decided whether to pursue a purchase of the intellectual property.

A day or two later, Gary Sweatt, the owner of the roller derby team, got back in touch with the lawyers and said it wouldn't make any sense for them both to be named the Guardians, as the roller derby's online presence would be squashed by the MLB franchise. He offered to sell all the intellectual property and rename his squad and asked the Indians to make an offer.

That offer, according to the lawsuit, was exceedingly low. Sweatt made a counter offer and didn't hear back from anyone for a month. Meanwhile, the Indians, on the day before the team announced the new name, filed two new federal trademark applications in which, the lawsuit says, they claimed no other person or entity had been using the Cleveland Guardians name for merchandise or business. (The Guardians roller derby team had registered with the Ohio Secretary of State in 2017.)

"The Cleveland Guardians have attempted several times to negotiate with the Indians to resolve this dispute," the lawsuit says. "Those talks, which began right after the July 23 announcement, broke down on October 26, 2021."
 

That's a pretty bad look for the baseball team. They clearly knew there was another person or entity using the Cleveland Guardians name for merchandise and business yet they filed the trademark applications anyway. 

What makes you think the roller derby team has no chance?

Cleveland Guardians Roller Derby Team Sues Cleveland Guardians Baseball Team in Federal Court Over Name

---

The Cleveland Guardians roller derby team, which has operated under the moniker for years and which had maintained a social media presence and owned the...

 

[ChetlovesMer]

1 minute ago, klineka said:

What makes you think the roller derby team has no chance?

That's what I was hearing on local radio this morning while driving around visiting customers. I listen to Cleveland Sports Talk in my car. They all seemed to agree that there was no way "The Guardians" Roller Derby Team could win this Lawsuit as precedent had been set in other cities in which different sports teams used the same mascot name. The example they gave was when St Louis got The Cardinals Football Team and already had The Cardinals Baseball Team. The Baseball team tried to sue the football team and force them to change their name. The baseball team lost that court battle.

I'm no lawyer so I really don't know. The talk I heard was this was a money grab. They framed it as the Roller Derby Team knows the Baseball Team will want to keep things positive and throw them a pile of money to keep this out of the courts. 

[boogielicious]

FWIW, the Braves were originally a Boston Team. Below is an excerpt from a Wikipedia article about the name origin. So they went from Red Caps to Beaneaters to the Doves to the Rustlers and finally Braves. The name had nothing to do with anything other than a symbol from Tammany Hall. Then they moved to Milwaukee then Atlanta.

The ‘Chop’ is stupid. It’s baseball not war. Grow up and move on.

Quote

The team became one of the National League's charter franchises in 1876, sometimes called the "Red Caps" (as a new Cincinnati Red Stockings club was another charter member). Boston came to be called the Beaneaters by sportswriters in 1883, while retaining red as the team color.

Although somewhat stripped of talent in the National League's inaugural year, Boston bounced back to win the 1877 and 1878 pennants. The Red Caps/Beaneaters were one of the league's dominant teams during the 19th century, winning a total of eight pennants. For most of that time, their managerwas Frank Selee, the first manager not to double as a player as well. The 1898 team finished 102–47, a club record for wins that would stand for almost a century.

The team was decimated when the upstart American League's new Boston entry set up shop in 1901. Many of the Beaneaters' stars jumped to the new team, which offered contracts that the Beaneaters' owners didn't even bother to match. They only managed one winning season from 1900 to 1913, and lost 100 or more games six times. In 1907, the newly renamed Doves (temporarily) eliminated the last bit of red from their stockings because their manager thought the red dye could cause wounds to become infected (as noted in The Sporting News Baseball Guide during the 1940s when each team's entry had a history of its nickname(s). See details in History of baseball team nicknames). The American League club's owner, Charles Taylor, wasted little time in changing his team's name to the Red Sox in place of the generic "Americans".

When George and John Dovey acquired the club in 1907, the team earned the sobriquet Doves; when purchased by William Hepburn Russell in 1911 punning reporters tried out Rustlers. However, clever monikers did nothing to change the National League club's luck. The team adopted an official name, the Braves, for the first time in 1912. Their owner, James Gaffney, was a member of New York City's political machine, Tammany Hall, which used an Indian chief as their symbol.

 

[Golfingdad]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

FWIW, the Braves were originally a Boston Team. Below is an excerpt from a Wikipedia article about the name origin. So they went from Red Caps to Beaneaters to the Doves to the Rustlers and finally Braves. The name had nothing to do with anything other than a symbol from Tammany Hall. Then they moved to Milwaukee then Atlanta.

The ‘Chop’ is stupid. It’s baseball not war. Grow up and move on.

 

Cool info.  They should go back to Doves haha.

I agree with others that the Chop isn't going anywhere .... as long as the team remains the Braves.   Renaming the team is likely the route to go.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Golfingdad said:

Cool info.  They should go back to Doves haha.

I agree with others that the Chop isn't going anywhere .... as long as the team remains the Braves.   Renaming the team is likely the route to go.

They could rename themselves the Atlanta Salads or Atlanta Lettuce. Maybe even the Atlanta Blocks. Then keep the "chop."

🤪