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TST Explores the ShotScope H4 (Stats Tracking Device) and Pro LX Rangefinder


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  • Administrator
Posted

@billchao and @boogielicious will be testing out the H4, a small shot tracking/GPS unit that clips to your belt and which offers Strokes Gained stats and more:


The H4 handheld golf GPS device packs Shot Scope's leading performance tracking technology and distance display into a neat and compact unit. Read more & buy online!

image.jpeg

I have an H4 also, and will be reviewing it (briefly) as well as the Pro LX rangefinder, which has a magnetic area for the H4 to "dock":


Hit the right yardage with the PRO LX laser rangefinder. With slope technology & red and black optics for crystal clear and accurate distances to the flag.

H4_Handheld_Black_480x441_Desktop_12.jpg

The three of us (and many others here) view this as a replacement for the GAME Golf, which if not dead, appears nearly so.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted

I purchased an H4.   I'm playing today.   I haven't done a deep dive into the stats yet since I've only used it for 3 rounds.   The round I played yesterday is useless because they have the course GPS completely wrong.   I've emailed support for a change.  I've heard good things about their tech support.

The editing is different but familiar to GG.   Just remember to assign your tags to the clubs like GG and tag each club.  I'm still recording first putt distance so I can edit easier after the round.  

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From the land of perpetual cloudiness.   I'm Denny

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Posted

So I came across and ordered the H4 yesterday because I was looking for something to use to track shots now that GG is a continued nightmare. I didn't want the continued expense of a subscription service like Arccos, but I would really like to get back to the kinds of stats I had with GG. Mine should be here tomorrow, I look forward to seeing how our experiences match up. 

Danny    In my :ping: Hoofer Tour golf bag on my :clicgear: 8.0 Cart

Driver:   :pxg: 0311 Gen 5  X-Stiff.                        Irons:  :callaway: 4-PW APEX TCB Irons 
3 Wood: :callaway: Mavrik SZ Rogue X-Stiff                            Nippon Pro Modus 130 X-Stiff
3 Hybrid: :callaway: Mavrik Pro KBS Tour Proto X   Wedges: :vokey:  50°, 54°, 60° 
Putter: :odyssey:  2-Ball Ten Arm Lock        Ball: :titleist: ProV 1

 

 

 

 

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  • Moderator
Posted

I’m pretty excited to review this. I liked Game Golf and I was disappointed to have to abandon it last year.

Just some quick thoughts:

  1. I like the magnet back of the unit. I wonder if I can attach it to something else as I play if I didn’t want to use the belt clip for some reason.
  2. The belt clip is metal. I know people have had problems with the Game Golf one breaking because it’s plastic.
  3. It came with a cord but not an actual power adapter. It’s 5v usb so I plugged it into my Garmin charger and it worked fine.
  4. It was a bit tedious to set up my bag on the app. There’s an extensive list of clubs and manufacturers available that you have to scroll through. A search function would have been nice.

I’ll share more after I actually use it to play. Curious to see what others think, as well.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Posted
15 hours ago, billchao said:

1. I like the magnet back of the unit. I wonder if I can attach it to something else as I play if I didn’t want to use the belt clip for some reason.

I attached mine to a metal plate I installed on my push cart. When I used it like that yesterday and it worked very well. I really don't want to wear it on my belt. Don't know what I am going to do when I have to take a cart.

Danny    In my :ping: Hoofer Tour golf bag on my :clicgear: 8.0 Cart

Driver:   :pxg: 0311 Gen 5  X-Stiff.                        Irons:  :callaway: 4-PW APEX TCB Irons 
3 Wood: :callaway: Mavrik SZ Rogue X-Stiff                            Nippon Pro Modus 130 X-Stiff
3 Hybrid: :callaway: Mavrik Pro KBS Tour Proto X   Wedges: :vokey:  50°, 54°, 60° 
Putter: :odyssey:  2-Ball Ten Arm Lock        Ball: :titleist: ProV 1

 

 

 

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, NM Golf said:

I attached mine to a metal plate I installed on my push cart. When I used it like that yesterday and it worked very well. I really don't want to wear it on my belt. Don't know what I am going to do when I have to take a cart.

Good idea. I want to move away from the watch while staying in the shotscope ecosystem since I am several years into it now, but I am not sure if I want to wear something on my belt or use a cheap carabiner to hang it off my bag. Seems like this could be an accessory from shotscope at somepoint (push cart mount).

16 hours ago, billchao said:

It was a bit tedious to set up my bag on the app.

Yeah, the shotscope club management system needs to be improved. It gets worse over time as you add new clubs to the bag but can't delete the old ones without erasing their history in your data. I have four drivers, four fairway woods, four hybrids, three sets of irons, two sets of wedges, and three putters in my bag.

-Peter

  • :titleist: TSR2
  • :callaway: Paradym, 4W
  • :pxg: GEN4 0317X, Hybrid
  • :srixon: ZX 3-iron, ZX5 4-AW
  • :cleveland:  RTX Zipcore 54 & 58
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  • Moderator
Posted
3 hours ago, NM Golf said:

I attached mine to a metal plate I installed on my push cart. When I used it like that yesterday and it worked very well. I really don't want to wear it on my belt. Don't know what I am going to do when I have to take a cart.

Yea I was thinking something along those lines, but how would you tag putts?

It was honestly just a passing thought. It gives the option to attach it to something else other than my belt, but I’m used to wearing things on my belt so I’m probably just going to do that.

1 hour ago, Darkfrog said:

Yeah, the shotscope club management system needs to be improved. It gets worse over time as you add new clubs to the bag but can't delete the old ones without erasing their history in your data. I have four drivers, four fairway woods, four hybrids, three sets of irons, two sets of wedges, and three putters in my bag.

You can just leave the old clubs in your database, right? On Game Golf you could delete the club from the bag but it kept the data. The only thing is if you went back to look at an old round, it wouldn’t know what club you hit.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Posted
24 minutes ago, billchao said:

Yea I was thinking something along those lines, but how would you tag putts?

It was honestly just a passing thought. It gives the option to attach it to something else other than my belt, but I’m used to wearing things on my belt so I’m probably just going to do that.

Good point, I just messed around with it yesterday, I haven't played a round with it yet. I guess I am just going to have to get used to having it on my belt. I suppose I could leave the clip on my belt and transfer it back on forth at the green, but I'm afraid thats going to get old in a hurry.

Danny    In my :ping: Hoofer Tour golf bag on my :clicgear: 8.0 Cart

Driver:   :pxg: 0311 Gen 5  X-Stiff.                        Irons:  :callaway: 4-PW APEX TCB Irons 
3 Wood: :callaway: Mavrik SZ Rogue X-Stiff                            Nippon Pro Modus 130 X-Stiff
3 Hybrid: :callaway: Mavrik Pro KBS Tour Proto X   Wedges: :vokey:  50°, 54°, 60° 
Putter: :odyssey:  2-Ball Ten Arm Lock        Ball: :titleist: ProV 1

 

 

 

 

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Posted

I'll be interested in your experiences.  I used Game Golf Live until the battery blew up, and support fell apart.  I have been using a ShotScope V3 for a year or so now, I like it but I don't like not having feedback on exactly where my shot is tagged.  (I don't worry too much given the margin of error for GPS).  The other "problem", which is a me problem, is that if I hit a true duff, and my next shot is too close (like the dreaded lack of bunker escape), it only picks one.  The H4 intrigues me.  I have seen comments about the belt clip not being "great", so I would like to hear about that.  If I get the H4, I'll likely keep the V3 on my wrist for yardages.  I like that the distances are relative to where you are, and not arbitrary points.


Posted
59 minutes ago, billchao said:

You can just leave the old clubs in your database, right? On Game Golf you could delete the club from the bag but it kept the data. The only thing is if you went back to look at an old round, it wouldn’t know what club you hit.

Yes, you can move clubs into the "unassigned" bin, but it won't let you delete a club that has been used, so everything added to the "my bag" stays there. The system used to let you delete a club but would give a disclaimer message saying something like deleting this club will also delete all of the data associated with it.

What is annoying about this is that in post-round editing, all of the clubs, assigned or not come up in editor. So if a shot was registered with the wrong club, it's not intuitive to pick from the list which is color coded rather than providing a description. This is rare - it would happen in cases where you put a new club in the bag but didn't update the "my bag" section so shots were registered on the old club. Or possibly a scenario where you took some practice swings with a 8-iron and it registered a shot, but then you actually hit the shot with a 9-iron. For example, below, this is what I see if I wanted to change the driver I used for this tee shot:

image.png.8260dbf8d4a2e4c24570f7dfdc2b8d1b.png

-Peter

  • :titleist: TSR2
  • :callaway: Paradym, 4W
  • :pxg: GEN4 0317X, Hybrid
  • :srixon: ZX 3-iron, ZX5 4-AW
  • :cleveland:  RTX Zipcore 54 & 58
  • L.A.B. Golf Directed Force 2.1
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Posted

While GG has seemingly resurrected for me (I've been able to post the last few rounds and get stats), I'm interested to find out how this proceeds.   I'm curious how the tags work with my grips -- do I need to glue them in like I did with GG, and how do I remove the GG ones?

9 hours ago, NM Golf said:

I attached mine to a metal plate I installed on my push cart. When I used it like that yesterday and it worked very well. I really don't want to wear it on my belt. Don't know what I am going to do when I have to take a cart.

How did you handle GG?  I also initially didn't like having it on my belt (I generally don't like even having much of anything in my pockets when I play), but I was able to get used to that one quickly.  But this one looks (at least in pictures) a bit bulkier. 

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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  • Administrator
Posted
28 minutes ago, Shindig said:

But this one looks (at least in pictures) a bit bulkier.

It’s not. It’s a pretty small display.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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  • Moderator
Posted
5 hours ago, jlbos83 said:

I have seen comments about the belt clip not being "great", so I would like to hear about that.

Not great as in people don’t want the device on a belt clip? I can’t imagine Game Golf users saying the clip isn’t good. I think it’s going to be more durable than the GG one.

49 minutes ago, Shindig said:

I'm curious how the tags work with my grips -- do I need to glue them in like I did with GG

The Shot Scope tags have a slightly longer screw than the Game Golf ones. I’m hoping they’ll stay in the PURE grips better because of that.

51 minutes ago, Shindig said:

how do I remove the GG ones?

Did you use silicone? You can just unscrew the tags with a bit of force and remove any residual silicone on your grip (though it seems to adhere more to the plastic tags if anything IME).

If you used super glue, it’s going to take more force and you’ll probably tear off chunks of the grip in the process.

53 minutes ago, Shindig said:

But this one looks (at least in pictures) a bit bulkier. 

Negative. 54160680-70AA-4C3B-940E-FAA1FB350904.jpeg

They’re about the same thickness with the belt clip on the Shot Scope. Without the clip, the unit itself is about the size of two Apple Watches stacked together.

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Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Posted

I’ve set it up and will play with it tomorrow. I’ll give my preliminary review after that.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

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boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

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Posted

I used the Pro LX rangefinder today in the US Senior Open Qualifier. I'll use the H4 on Friday when I play.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted
4 hours ago, Shindig said:

But this one looks (at least in pictures) a bit bulkier. 

The unit w/o the clip is only about 1 1/4 x 1 1/2".   The magnet is strong enough to stay in the clip.   I wore mine on my belt last round and it worked for me as easy as GG.  I'm still learning but I believe this unit has potential.  

On another note.   We played a course Monday that wasn't mapped correctly.  Today, Wednesday, they responded via email and had updated the course.   Call me impressed.

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From the land of perpetual cloudiness.   I'm Denny

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Posted
5 hours ago, Shindig said:

How did you handle GG?  I also initially didn't like having it on my belt (I generally don't like even having much of anything in my pockets when I play), but I was able to get used to that one quickly.  But this one looks (at least in pictures) a bit bulkier. 

I tagged my clubs using my phone. 

Danny    In my :ping: Hoofer Tour golf bag on my :clicgear: 8.0 Cart

Driver:   :pxg: 0311 Gen 5  X-Stiff.                        Irons:  :callaway: 4-PW APEX TCB Irons 
3 Wood: :callaway: Mavrik SZ Rogue X-Stiff                            Nippon Pro Modus 130 X-Stiff
3 Hybrid: :callaway: Mavrik Pro KBS Tour Proto X   Wedges: :vokey:  50°, 54°, 60° 
Putter: :odyssey:  2-Ball Ten Arm Lock        Ball: :titleist: ProV 1

 

 

 

 

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Posted
18 hours ago, billchao said:

Not great as in people don’t want the device on a belt clip? I can’t imagine Game Golf users saying the clip isn’t good. I think it’s going to be more durable than the GG one.

The Shot Scope tags have a slightly longer screw than the Game Golf ones. I’m hoping they’ll stay in the PURE grips better because of that.

Did you use silicone? You can just unscrew the tags with a bit of force and remove any residual silicone on your grip (though it seems to adhere more to the plastic tags if anything IME).

If you used super glue, it’s going to take more force and you’ll probably tear off chunks of the grip in the process.

They’re about the same thickness with the belt clip on the Shot Scope. Without the clip, the unit itself is about the size of two Apple Watches stacked together.

That all sounds good.  I used Gorilla Glue for my PURE grips / GG tag connection.  The tags have come out on occasion (I have only 15 GG tags remaining -- if GG were still around, I'd probably buy more).

I've never held an apple watch, but your picture with it next to the GameGolf helps a lot.  I was imagining having my old garage door opener on my belt when I first saw the unit.  

15 hours ago, dennyjones said:

The unit w/o the clip is only about 1 1/4 x 1 1/2".   The magnet is strong enough to stay in the clip.   I wore mine on my belt last round and it worked for me as easy as GG.  I'm still learning but I believe this unit has potential.  

On another note.   We played a course Monday that wasn't mapped correctly.  Today, Wednesday, they responded via email and had updated the course.   Call me impressed.

Yeah.  GG still has the occasional issues with courses I've told them they need to correct... that they did and reverted for some reason.  It doesn't help that my home course has multiple multi-green holes.   

If these reviews come out well, I might switch units.  Or just the next time I get fed up with GG.  Which might be today, who knows. 

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
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    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
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