Low Spinners (Viktor Hovland, AoA)

[iacas]

Hitting Low Spinners

Generally speaking, I'm a big fan of using the bounce on short game shots for a lot of golfers and a lot of the shots they face around the greens:

30-Day Practice Plan - Golf Evolution - Day #7

BUT… this topic isn't about those type of shots. I believe that you should be able to hit a bunch of different types of shots around the green, and so this is a discussion — and it won't be very brief — about the low spinner.

Recently, Joe Mayo has been posting a lot about how he helped Viktor Hovland go from having a three handicapper's short game (not as much of an exaggeration as it should be for a Tour player) to having a very, very good short game. Essentially, he talked with Viktor about the spin loft needed to hit low, spinning shots around the green — "low spinners." He unlocked for Viktor the understanding that you can hit 10 to 12° down (AoA) and deliver 45° of loft (a 60° wedge with 15° of shaft lean) at impact.

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Spin Loft (and Its Mountain)

Spin loft is the 3D angle between the direction the clubhead is traveling and the face normal (a vector perpendicular to the clubface) at impact. If your path is relatively square, it's basically the AoA + the dynamic loft. If you deliver 45° of loft at impact and are hitting 10° down, that's 55° of spin loft.

I remember talking over 10 years ago with Andrew Rice and others about the "spin loft mountain." Basically, spin increases up to about 50 to 55° of spin loft, at which point it begins dropping again. That's why a wedge spins more than a 7I, which spins more than a 3W. The spin loft increases as you add more loft and/or hit down more.

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(Vertical) Ball Flight Laws

Another thing about the low spinner that we have to start to understand is related to the ball flight laws. Though we know generally that the ball starts where the face is pointing and curves away from the path, those are the "lateral" ball flight laws. They're also true in the vertical dimension, but we have to replace "curves" with "spins." Spins is still correct laterally, of course, but we typically express that as curve.

With a driver, the difference between face and path is about 90% face and 10% path. With more lofted irons, it's as low as about 70%. With a wedge, it's about 70% face and 30% path. Again, this applies (very nearly equally) both laterally (horizontally) and vertically.

So, assuming a higher lofted club that's 70/30:

• Path 5° left, face 1° right: ball will launch 0.8° left and probably fade a little back to the target.
• AoA is 10° down, dynamic loft is 45°: ball will launch at about 28.5°.

Sub-30° launch is the "low" part of "low spinner."

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A Brief Side Story

When @cedrictheo and I went to Pinehurst this October, I spent the first day messing around with this shot. I was trying to "hit down more" and lean the shaft forward more. I hit a few of these low spinners the first day. Part of the issue was that we were hitting range balls, which will always launch higher and spin less. But, we could still tell that they weren't coming off the way they should.

Then, on a whim, I played a hunch I'd been considering for awhile. I'd always seen @NatalieB hit these shots even without really trying. I occasionally played a shot like this. So, rather than trying to hit down more with more shaft lean, I just did what I thought was a "low on the face" shot with a little more rotation through the hit. The one thing I added was a little bit of head movement forward and down during the backswing.

Bam. Low spinner. Low spinner. Low spinner. We played Southern Pines later that day and I was goofing around hitting them all over the place.

It turns out my hunch was right. The hunch was… 15° of shaft lean and -10° AoA is not that much. On a clock, every minute mark is 6°. So, the clock image here is what a low spinner looks like: the red line is the AoA. It's not as severe as you'd think, right? The blue line shows 15° of shaft lean — right between minutes two and three on the clock. The green line is the ground (to provide a horizontal reference), and the black line is the clubface.

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Technique

Here are the basics:

• 58-60° wedge
• A little open (this doesn't actually open the face much)
• Much more vertical shaft (this elevates the heel a little bit)
• Ball middle to slightly back in your stance
• Weight 50/50 or so, with a pretty narrow stance
• As you take the club back, hinge it a bit to add some shaft lean, and let your head move down and forward a little, toward the target, shifting a bit more weight onto the front foot.
• Pivot through, with not locked but somewhat firm wrists. You don't want to release or throw away the shaft lean ("lag"), but you want to hit the ground fairly solidly and get the hands through first. Pivoting will do that.

That's it. Mess around with it, and hit some low spinners. You can literally hit this shot 5 yards if you want, or 30+ yards. You'll generally see a smash factor of well below 1.0 (like 0.8 to 0.9), so you can give them a little more speed than you think. The ball should launch at under 30° and should bounce once or twice before spinning.

Keep your wedge clean and use urethane golf balls.

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FAQ

If you want to launch it < 30°, why not just use a lower lofted club?

Because either the spin won't be there, or the AoA won't be there. If you hit this shot with a 50° club, for example, to get to 55° of spin loft you're going to have to deliver only 5° of shaft lean with -10° AoA. Delivering more AoA than shaft lean is a tough thing to do. You're not going to be able to do it very often.

Consequently, if you tried to deliver 10° of shaft lean, or 40° delivered loft, you'd have to hit down 15°. Again, you're gonna have a tough time delivering more AoA than shaft lean.

Try to deliver 10° down with 15° of shaft lean (35° delivered loft), like with a wedge, and the ball will launch lower (45 * 0.7 -> 22° launch), but will spin less because the spin loft is only 45° instead of 55°. A lower launching ball with less spin is not going to produce the results you seek.

Spoiler

larryrinkergolf - As an option, why wouldn’t you use a less lofted club to get a 29 degree launch that would have less forward shaft lean and more bounce? Have same dynamic loft at impact. Thx Visor Guy.

josephmayogolf - @larryrinkergolf GREAT question and the answer is...... it becomes exponentially more difficult to get the AoA to 10°+ down to open the spin loft up to 55° or so when you start taking away lean. It's absolutely possible to do it but more difficult as shaft lean contributes strongly to AoA.

Here and here.

Why open the face? Why raise the handle or have a more vertical shaft?

Despite the many videos (some of which will be below) where Joe talks about how you won't dig the club even though you're hitting down with shaft lean… you still can. I think the combination of raising the handle and opening the face slightly does two things:

1. Raising the heel guarantees the toe will contact the ground slightly earlier than the heel. The toe is more forgiving, and has a little more bounce, and if it grabs, it'll just twist the face slightly open and add a little more loft while rotating the heel into the ball. In other words, it adds a little forgiveness to a shot technique that takes some away over "using the bounce/glide."
2. Raising the heel ever so slightly raises the clubface and thus lowers the contact location on the clubface. Shots hit a little bit lower on the clubface benefit from a little bit of vertical gear effect. When you hit your driver low on the face, the ball launches lower but with more spin. Same here. Also, contacting the ball a little lower on the face scrubs a little speed (centered contact has a higher smash factor). It also encourages you to hit the ball a little toward the toe, which can also scrub some speed.

What other conditions do you want for this shot?

A urethane ball. A clean clubface and a relatively clean lie (at least to the back of the ball). That's about it. You can hit it from a mushy lie, a firm lie… whatever. Oh, one more thing: clean contact is a must.

How often do you hit this shot?

That's up to you. Joe will tell you that the spin makes it very predictable, but I've always preferred stopping the ball with trajectory, not spin. Still, there are times when hitting the higher, softer shot is not an option.

Is Rory's shot at the Ryder Cup an example of this?

Yes (original source).

Rory's shot launched even lower than 30°… because he was on a downhill lie. If he was on a 10° downslope, he could deliver 35° of loft and hit 20° down to horizontal… which is still effectively 45°/-10° if you adjust for the downslope. Still the peak of the spin loft mountain! (I holed out such a shot, albeit much shorter, from a downhill lie to an uphill green on the 16th at Southern Pines with @cedrictheo).

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Videos

Like I said, Joe has posted a LOT of videos on his Instagram lately. Here are a few linked Instagram posts, and a mashup of videos below (I wish Instagram still let you embed the actual videos in posts, so I'm just trying to save y'all some clicks).

First, a Viktor video. You'll see pretty clear as day how Viktor's head moves forward and down during his backswing:

Joseph Mayo (@josephmayogolf) • Instagram reel

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@jonsinclairgolf called me today with the AMM 3D information that I've been waiting on. Now we finally know what VH is actually doing in these extr...

Next, this video explains that by hitting 10° or 12° down, you're not moving the entire golf club down at that angle.

Joseph Mayo (@josephmayogolf) • Instagram reel

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1,044 likes, 34 comments - josephmayogolf on August 30, 2023: "Please join my Patreon channel to learn more....."

That should make sense if you just consider that holding the grip end of the club and letting the club swing down from horizontal can lead to a clubhead moving down, even while the handle is moving slightly upward… because the shaft is leaning forward about 15° when the clubhead contacts the ball.

Brian Gay hitting some of these shots with a bigger backswing than you may think…

Joseph Mayo (@josephmayogolf) • Instagram reel

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I watched this for 8 years: torso way forward, steep AoA, sub 30° launch and a shitload of spin....

Just a shot someone sent him:

Here's Joe getting 7400 RPM of spin on a 30-yard shot (45°, -9°)… with a wedge that has no grooves on it:

Joseph Mayo (@josephmayogolf) • Instagram reel

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1,415 likes, 112 comments - josephmayogolf on October 5, 2023: "Having a little fun..... @pingtour @paulwood_79 @sashomackenzie @jonsinclairgolf @jertybird @e_h..."

Megacut Video

Here's the megacut video. Because I put it together the quick-and-easy way, the video will appear a little squished and YouTube doesn't like it. So, this is the "raw" movie file. You should be able to watch it in your browser. 😀

[klineka]

Great post Erik, super informative. I've been following Joe on Instagram for a few months now and had been meaning to ask you your thoughts/opinions on what he teaches. 

I'll have to give this a shot, I've hit low spinners before but not necessarily when I was trying to.

[iacas]

7 hours ago, klineka said:

I'll have to give this a shot, I've hit low spinners before but not necessarily when I was trying to.

Ha ha, yeah, that’s how a lot of people hit them: accidentally.

[cedrictheo]

Have been messing with the low spinner on my gc3 the past week or so. I found the angle of attack part quite easy but still wasn’t getting high spin numbers. The gc3 doesn’t have the lie or the dynamic loft numbers which made it quite confusing to sort out at first. But after a few sessions I’m consistently launching the ball sub 30 with 4000 - 5000 spin. I personally needed a squarer face, a steeper backswing that goes more outside the hands, a closed stance and more shaft lean at address/impact.  Clean contact feels almost guaranteed now. 

Not sure I’d ever have figured this shot out on my own. So thanks to Erik / Joe Mayo for leading me down this road. 

[iacas]

8 hours ago, cedrictheo said:

So thanks to Erik

Feels like a lotta credit there for just messing around in Pinehurst. 😉 

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I found this video this morning:

I particularly love the part where he says he's going to be really shallow… and then…

</sarcasm>

(The video is otherwise pretty good.) That part just made me chuckle. Measure, people.

[phillyk]

I hadn’t thought about firmer wrists for these shots before. It makes sense. Tried messing with this shot yesterday and it was working pretty well. 

[billchao]

I like the low spinner out of the fairway. I actually find it easier than using the bounce but it’s probably due to my tendency to drag the handle so it’s just a more natural shot for me.

[GolfLug]

On 11/28/2023 at 11:52 PM, klineka said:

I'll have to give this a shot, I've hit low spinners before but not necessarily when I was trying to.

On 11/29/2023 at 7:37 AM, iacas said:

Ha ha, yeah, that’s how a lot of people hit them: accidentally.

I picked one clean on 18th from a tight lie two weeks ago for third from 40-ish yards (I was just trying to get it on the green, like anywhere on the green). I am still signing autographs.  

[Clemsonfan]

Your post is much more informative than the one I initially followed here from Clay Ballard for full shots. I had always favored descent angle instead of spin for wedges. I am much better around the greens and from 100 yards this year with much less practice and playing time than I can recall.

:

If this

[iacas]

@Clemsonfan, you ended the post with "If this" and it included what appears to be a full swing video. Was there more to what you wanted to say? This post is mostly about the short game, chipping, 7- to 30-yard "checkers."

[colin007]

Tell me where else you can find info this gold? TELL ME.

[Clemsonfan]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

@Clemsonfan, you ended the post with "If this" and it included what appears to be a full swing video. Was there more to what you wanted to say? This post is mostly about the short game, chipping, 7- to 30-yard "checkers."

@iacas, I was sharing that I do something similar for full wedge shots. Thought I wrote, “if this detracts from the short game discussion, please remove it.”

[Bob M]

@iacas Thanks for your thorough explanation of this shot (which I have also hit by accident, LOL)! Your discussion ties several things together for me, including how to execute the low spinner.

I joined Mayo's Patreon site and found his comments and videos fascinating. Although I cancelled at the end of November, it was not because of the quality of his videos but rather that at my level I need to develop a reliable basic pitch first. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Bob M
fix clumsy wording

[iacas]

[GolfLug]

Do you hold it through impact?

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Do you hold it through impact?

Hold what? Shaft lean? Kinda depends on the size of the shot. It doesn't really matter — the ball is gone — and depends mostly on how the club interacts with the ground and the size of the shot.

I find that a small float load can help deliver the right amount of shaft lean at impact and thus thus the right amount of spin loft.

[phillyk]

I’ve been having a lot of success with this idea. Lots of spin and low shots with control. Having fun with it. 

[iacas]

Athletic Motion Golf (@athletic_motion_golf) • Instagram reel

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96 likes, 16 comments - athletic_motion_golf on January 23, 2024: "It’s always fun hanging out and talking short game with @stevenbowdo83. Here are a few screen ..."

Not so steep shots here… 😉