Swing Analysis Challenge

[iacas]

Setup
Several threads lately (DDBowdoin's driver swing, the one about Hogan's swing being "overrated," and a few others about how a swing can be ugly so long as it repeats, etc.) have made me think of this little "challenge."

Here are three videos of an anonymous guy (a friend of mine here in PA). You won't find information about him on the forum, so don't bother trying. I also don't care if you're right or wrong - I just think it'll be a fun little challenge and we'll see what other people have to say.

Until you answer for yourself, try not to read whatever anyone else has written lest it taint your opinions. Answer from your gut.

Videos
Here are three videos. Questions follow:

http://erik.thesandtrap.com/videos/mystery1.mov
http://erik.thesandtrap.com/videos/mystery2.mov
http://erik.thesandtrap.com/videos/mystery3.mov

Questions
1) Based on these swings, what handicap do you think this guy plays to? I will tell you that his short game is about average for his handicap - he doesn't hole every chip shot or three-putt every green or anything goofy like that.

2) What do you think was the outcome of each of these shots? One's a tee shot on a par three, and each of the others is a driver on two par fours.

3) What would you do, if anything, to fix this golfer's swing? What are his flaws, and what would you do to correct them?

Small Prize
I'll give a free copy of Scorecard to the guy who provides the "best" answer to this question. I may have someone else judge the "best" answer. Remember, "best" doesn't necessarily mean "correct."

[Magnus]

Ok....here it goes....

First off...great idea. Also, may I mention, perfect cut-off timing on the videos - before this person can lean or bend indicating where the ball goes...

Question 1:
I believe this person plays to an 18 handicap. Why? Part guess, partly what I list below...

Question 2
First hole - slice or pull, but it appears to start out left of target?
Second hole - prob less than 250 and to the right?
Third hole - pop-up, possibly a bit right?

Question 3
I did not go frame by frame, or try to break the video down - maybe some people will, I just went with what I saw at full speed on the videos. He takes the club a bit outside on the backswing - the clubhead is outside of his hands, but he appears to correct this pretty well on the way back down and does not come over the top as bad as his initial backswing may lead me to believe. Second video really looks like a reverse pivot, and his stance is quite narrow. This may help him turn more, but I think he needs a wider base. Clubhead impact sounds good, for what its worth, it sounds like good contact - so I may assume he isnt hitting monster slices or hooks or too many thin or fat...but I maintain my 18 handicap guess.

It will be fun to find out how far off I am, hahaha....

[iQuest Golfer]

Par 3 Analysis...

Looks like he's set up to cut the ball but with the clubhead closed, even with a good release his shot off the club is pre-destined to be a high flier left. Good tempo but makes an outside to inside motion making the desired cut shot near impossible.

1st Par 4 Analysis...

Very strong grip... when taking the club back, golfer leans forward instead on loading on his right side. This is often seen on TV being referred to as the "stack and tilt" method which is not effective. At impact golfer hangs back on the shot causing hands to be behind or at best even with the golf ball. His hands should be ahead of the ball with his weight being on the left side at impact eliminating the hook. Judging by his body alignment on impact, he hit a medium to high ball flight straight left or drawing left of his desired target.

2nd Par 4 Anaylsis...

At the top of his swing the clubface is closed and is on the inside of the swing plane. Needs to get more on top of the ball at impact. He does have a good release but with his closed clubface his shots may result in going left of the desired target. This particular shot went either right at his target or was a draw slightly left.

I would guess he's hitting a 5-7 handicap.

Suggestions: If he is a 5-7 Hcp'er and his short game is good he needs to work on ... covering the golf ball more - getting on top of the ball. Tiger and Faldo are good examples of players that cover the ball well and transfer weight appropriately.

[x-forged]

1- Looks like a 15 handicap

2- first video: pull
second video: push
third video: dead straight

3- There is a noticeable sway in his backswing in the second video. He gets on his front side nicely on the follow through, but he should work on turning those hips instead of swaying them. Also, his feet with the driver look a little too close together, if he widens it a little it may help that hip sway disappear.

[TinCupTampa]

Setup

Answer #1 - I would guess around a 15-18 handicap. He has a pretty controlled swing... flawed but it seems controlled.

Answer #2 - (Swing 1) I would guess he came up left of the green... no idea on distance but it definately looks like he has a tendency to draw or hook the ball with how far he takes his backswing on the outside. (Swing 2 & 3) I would venture to say middle to left side of the fairway. It didnt look like his backswing was being taken nearly as far outside as his irons were. So I half to guess it was a decent shot. Answer #3 - He definately has a slide away from the ball on his backswing and his back leg seems to straighten too much. If I were the one teaching him to correct his swing... I would try to get him to maintain a more athletic position in his takeway and backswing and get him to coil around his back leg vs sliding his hips. Hopefull this would make his swing a little more narrow but not too much and give him a more powerful swing while keeping the same tempo.

[ks8829]

Setup

His handicap is 13

1) slice shot I would have him practice taking the club more inside the line of his swing. 2) push slice shot swaying on his driver, so I would recommend he practice rotating around his body 3) slice shot he took his driver just outside and slice his drive, I would have him take the club more inside the line.

[iacas]

Looking for a few more people to reply... so I'll sticky this, too.

[Jay-Bird]

-----1.He's a 12. Occasionally breaks 80, when he holes chips and avoids multiple 3 putts..
-----2a. slice. missed the green short and right.
-----2b. Pull-hooked it hard. It rolled for ever.
-----2c. Big Slice and high. probably lost it in the deep rough to the right, Flew about 225y.
-----3.I'd have him widen his stance a bit to stabilize the obvious sway. His balance isn't terrible, but the weight shift is not good. Good tempo. The take back is a little outside in, and he opens his right shoulder too much at the top just as he starts his transition. He should watch some youtube videos of Ben Hogan's (not at all overrated) perfect swing.

[NorCalGolfer]

Setup

I think he plays to a 14.5 handicap.

1st shot he played a cut but it fell short and left of the hole. he chipped up and 2 putted for a bogey 2nd shot would be impossible to to figure out where it went, but I'll take an educated guess and say it was down the middle and he went on to par. 3rd shot looked like it started out left. Possibly a double cross since I think he plays a fade and he may have pulled that one. I'd say double bogey. I don't know what I'd correct without really knowing what his outcomes are. Because his first shot has a very Jim Furyk feeling and if he can pull it off then play it. His second shot there's tons of sway in his body and his feet are close together, but it seems to make it back to address at impact so I don't know. And the third looked fine. Controlled and rhythmic. But what the f*ck do I know? lol

[bm303]

1) 20 handicap
2)
1st hole: Appeared to start out left of the target, and then began to fade towards the right side of the green
2nd hole: Straight
3rd hole: Started straight, ended up fading right
3: He seems to sway on his backswing, instead of keeping his hips more steady and turning them. Seems to have a slightly outside-in swingpath, causing him to hit the ball to the left and then have it fade and end up center, or right of his target.

Awesome idea by the way!!

[allin]

Setup

I would guess a 10-12 handicap.

Shot one was probably a pull, left and long of the green. Shot two was probably a decent shot, maybe a slight push fade. Shot three looks like a poor shot popped up short and right. The first thing I would suggest is widening his stance a little, this would give him a little more room and improve his ball position( to far forward) Second I would try to get him not to try so hard to keep his head steady. His hips move backward but his head and legs stay forward. It is possible he is trying to shift his weight instead of allowing natural hip turn. As upright as he swings, limiting hip turn is not a good idea. Finally instead of mechanical thoughts I would try to get him to focus on how he moves. Keeping his motion connected and focusing on the order things happen. I suspect he breaks the swing down in to little bits. Keep head still, fire the hips, shoulder turn, keep club outside on the take away. Trying to find a more integrated natrural way to move before focusing much on improving the mechanical parts of the swing.

[ssrs8]

1) Based on these swings, what handicap do you think this guy plays to? I will tell you that his short game is about average for his handicap - he doesn't hole every chip shot or three-putt every green or anything goofy like that.

9 Handicap. No reason, just a guess really. He looks very skilled and/or gets out there a lot.

2) What do you think was the outcome of each of these shots? One's a tee shot on a par three, and each of the others is a driver on two par fours.

Video #1
On green. Sounded like solid contact, and ball appeared to fly down his target line. By the looks of the take back it's a fade or slice, but downswing appears much more on plane so probably straight and high with soft landing.

Video #2
Because of strong grip combined with head dip before impact, I am guessing left ball flight was slight pull and draw. I am guessing it was in the fairway though because he is good enough to line up to compensate for this.

Video #3
Because of same reasons as video #2, I am guessing left side of the fairway.

3) What would you do, if anything, to fix this golfer's swing? What are his flaws, and what would you do to correct them?
He is very flexible, has great tempo, and appears to be a good ball striker by the clean sound. This really depends on the results and what his desired ball flight is. If everything works for him why change it I suppose. If he is after a more classic swing the obvious tendedncies to correct are:

- The take back in video #1 is too far outside, but he appears to fix this and be much more on plane during the downswing.

- The reverse pivot on the take back in video #2 (which he also appears to correct during the downswing). If I had this tendency I think I would work on keeping my hips quiter. Only because it's extraneous (he appears plenty flexible) and adds one more part of the swing that can go wrong.

- His head has some extra movement with the driver and is dipped before impact. This appears related to the reverse pivot hip movement. Before impact, his hinge will be a few inches closer to the ball causing a slight pull or push maybe.

[sc golfer]

1.)From the looks of it this guy has been playing with this swing for a while, it's very consistent. I would say he's around a 12-13 handicap.

2.)I think that all three swings is some sort of pullcut, I would say that all 3 ended up safe.

3.)First, he's going way outside the line on the takeaway, so there I would have him bring on plane so that the club straight at his target when the club was at parallel. Secondly, he shifts his weight way out over his right foot. I would try having him feel that the weight was going to the inside of his foot, instead of over it. Also I don't think that his stance is wide enough, which might contribute to weight shift issue. I think that he's thinking that by swaying he's actuall turning his hips, which he's not at all.

[NorCalGolfer]

I think it's time to tell us. I want my prize!! lol

[Stillhacken]

Setup

1) I think he plays off a nine handicap.

He has good tempo and probably plays consistantly. He also holds his lag well so he gets sufficient distance.His set up looks pretty good also. 2) I think his iron shot was a high fade. His driver was probably a low ball going straight caused by the hip slide. If his grip wasnt so strong he would probably hit cut shot. 3) He has the traits of a two plane swinger with the narrow upright stance and across the line at the top of his swing. I would have him stop swaying the hips so much and start setting the club earlier in the backswing. I would experiment with a weaker grip too. Once he fixes the hips he will probably be snaphooking with that grip. Over all he has a good swing with the potential for good golf when his timing and tempo is on.

[whip_it_out]

1. 112. 1) Straight(straight where he was aimed)*** 2) Straight*** 3) Pull3. I noticed he tookt he club to the outside to start the swing, he seems to have compensated well, but it could bite him in the future. I had the problem, then fixed it by laying a headcover just outside the clubs path, parallel to his foot alignment. He also swayed considerably off the ball in #2. You can put a stake in the ground just outside your right hip, so that it gives you a little room to shift your weight, but you knwo if youre going too far off if you bump the stake. He also seemed to have a reverse pivot, but that can be directly linked to sliding his hips so far off the ball. His outside takeaway was there in the 3rd video, but not quite as much as # 1.

[whip_it_out]

On my last post! My anser to number one was 11. The "2." is signaling the start of question 2.

[polodinks]

1. i would say hes about a 10 handicap

2. the first video, it looks like it was straight but he wound up short on the left side.....

the second video, i first noticed the sway in his knees thru his swing and would look like it resulted in a slice.....

the third video, again noticed his knee coming in but looked dead straight and nice.....


3. what to fix?..... i would think to make his weight shift with his body instead of all legs......

dont know alot about analyzing but i gave it my best......