Intentional Deflecting - Rules and what to do?

[Shindig]

On the 18th green today, I'm facing a 20-foot birdie putt. I hit it about a foot past the hole, at which point one of the guys I'm paired with hits the ball. Deliberately, with his putter. He's already holed his, but he hits mine around a few times before hitting it to me, saying sorry, and telling me to hit my second putt. I go to do this - I go to about where I think the ball was after it stopped and before he hit it. I line it up, I hit it, it's rolling well... and he blocks it with his putter a few inches before the cup. He hits it back and says to hit it again, and I do. Same result.

At this point, I pick up and walk off after expressing my displeasure with him and his behavior in a manner not appropriate for this forum. But I don't know what my score is.

It was a par-5, and I reached GIR. I have no doubt I would have sunk my second putt - I was making all the short ones today, and this was a straight putt of a foot or so. And it was going straight in when he stopped it both times.

But by the time he left the green, the group behind us was all within 100 yards and at their respective balls. I guess I could have asked to join them and putt with them once they're on, had I been able to calm down... and then decided whether to hit from the first spot or second spot - or as close as I could guess on those.


So, three questions:
1. What's my score for that hole? I want to think par (5), but I did technically hit the ball 6 times on that hole (3 to get GIR, first putt, deflected second putt, deflected third putt). Or would it be a no-score (DQ) for not holing out?
It's a casual round, not a tournament or anything, but a par gets me an 89 from the blues and would be my first time breaking 90 from the blues at this course.

2. What should I have done?

3. I see this guy at the course on a regular basis and I've been paired with him before (all random pairings). He hasn't done this before. What do I do if I see him again? What do I do if I'm paired with him again? What if he starts doing it and it's not just the 18th hole, but earlier in the round?

[scottevans77]

I'm not sure on the exact ruling, but I think you may have been eligible to rehit your original putt since that was the one he deflected.

Edit: After looking it up, I think rule 19-3 covers that, but I'm still not entirely sure.

[Shindig]

I'm not sure on the exact ruling, but I think you may have been eligible to rehit your original putt since that was the one he deflected.

Well, he hit the first one after (I believe) it stopped. It looked still to me, but I was about 20 feet away. I was walking up to mark it when he hit it.

In any case, even if I had been eligible to hit it again, he would have deflected it again (as he did with my "2nd" and "3rd" putts). And then I just would've started hitting worse putts, as I don't get too mad about missing a putt, but I was getting mad very quickly at him (and still am mad, an hour later).

[scottevans77]

Since you didn't technically finish the hole, I think you would have to use the hadicap system to give yourself a score for that hole.

[Smallville]

Why was he doing this? And why did you allow him to do it a second time? I would have advised the guy not to do it again. In fact after he started hitting your ball around after your first putt you should have advised him not to touch your ball again. What you would do after he touched it again would be up to you. I don't know what I would have done because no one has ever done that to me but something would have happened after the second time. Luckily it was the 18th green; I would not have continued my round with that person. I wouldn't let the clubhouse or starter pair me up with him again. And if there was a problem with that I'd let the clubhouse and starter know why. Why would you have to be paired with him again if you didn't want to be anyway?

I'd call it a par. I don't care if that's correct or not.

[Shindig]

Why was he doing this? And why did you allow him to do it a second time? I would have advised the guy not to do it again. In fact after he started hitting your ball around after your first putt you should have advised him not to touch your ball again. What you would do after he touched it again would be up to you. I don't know what I would have done because no one has ever done that to me but something would have happened after the second time. Luckily it was the 18th green; I would not have continued my round with that person. I wouldn't let the clubhouse or starter pair me up with him again. And if there was a problem with that I'd let the clubhouse and starter know why. Why would you have to be paired with him again if you didn't want to be anyway?

I don't know how I could have advised him to not do it again. Unfortunately, part of the LA City courses is that you're paired up with whoever they finish the foursome with at the time. You can make tee-times for 1-4 people, but they fill up foursomes.

As for why, I don't know. He was a nice guy for the first 17.5 holes, and I didn't have a problem with him the last time I was paired with him.

I'd call it a par. I don't care if that's correct or not.

Since you didn't technically finish the hole, I think you would have to use the hadicap system to give yourself a score for that hole.

Well, I'm pretty sure it's one of these. I found my rulebook. 18-4 says that I just need to replace it after he moved the one from at rest (as I did).

As for his deflecting it while it was moving, 19-1b says to cancel the stroke and replay it, but I don't see that as an option since he kept deflecting it -- I tried. Twice! I'm a small guy and I had no way of getting him to move out of the way. I actually thought when he gave it back to me the second time that he wouldn't deflect it that time. Now, rule 1-2 says that he committed a serious breach of the rule by his moving of the ball to put me at a disadvantage (as I said, I'm certain the two putts that he deflected while they were moving would have gone in -- being in the hole vs. not in the hole is a big disadvantage for me). And rule 1-4 -- is it really a special case if I can't get him to stop? I doubt it, but just in case -- says the dispute should be settled with equity. I can't find anything in the rules 18-19 in the '06-'07 "Decisions" book from the USGA. There's a ruling (1-2/7) as to what if your partner in fourball stops it for you. I can't find anything in 1-4 either. Maybe I should write to the USGA rules committee and ask for a ruling? I'm sure I'm not the only one who has had to deal with someone being a jerk like this.

[scottevans77]

It really is a tough situation. Good luck on finding an accurate answer. Hopefully you won't be paired up with the jerk again in the future and you'll never have to deal with such an idiotic action again.

[Shindig]

It really is a tough situation. Good luck on finding an accurate answer. Hopefully you won't be paired up with the jerk again in the future and you'll never have to deal with such an idiotic action again.

Thank you -- both for the well-wishes and for your help.

[v3rs3]

Wow, that guy sounds like a douche. I would have told him to quit messing around and if that didn't work I'd probably get thrown off the course, but that's just me I guess.

If the putt was really only a foot or so, I'd call it a gimme and go about my business. Good round.

[Fourputt]

In this odd situation I would say that 1-4 does apply. However, technically since you never holed out you can't apply the rule as it's intended. Had it been a tournament the player's actions would have been unconscionable, but apparently it was not a competition round, so there is an out for a player in a casual round.

On any hole where a player fails to hole out he can take the score which he most likely would have made if he had continued his play from the point where he picked up. In this case, if your ball was actually at rest only a foot from the hole before the jerk started his most peculiar actions, then I'd say that par was the most likely outcome. This is even acceptable if you are returning your score for handicap.

This procedure is part of the USGA handicapping system, not a Rule of Golf, and is applicable only if the failure to hole out did not occur in a competition. If you fail to hole out in a stroke competition, the penalty is disqualification.

[JohnTwing]

This is the problem with the rulebook - it generally presumes that everyone else is attempting to play by the rules.

In this case, the rules can't really say much about someone playing goalie with the hole and repeatedly hitting your ball. It's a par, but I'm rather baffled as to why this guy snapped and did this.

[agengo02]

but I'm rather baffled as to why this guy snapped and did this.

ya thats my question too? i mean i cant think of 1 reason why someone would just start hitting your ball around when youre trying to finish out the hole, ESPECIALLY if the next group is less than 100 yards away waiting for yall to finish. ya down here there would definately be words exchanged but most likely more

[chrt396]

Unless he was playing around with you in jest...I think I would have been walking off of that hole with a damaged putter. I've never played a round with anyone that would even think of such a thing unless he/she was playing around with me. Kind of unusual.

[Craig Mac]

I believe the proper ruling requires you to beat him about the neck and head with said putter . That does suck!! I deflected a ball for a player the other day, we got paired up with a guy and his girlfriend. She was a beginner and it was obvious she wasn't enjoying herself and picking up after hitting 2 or 3 shots each hole. On the par three she hit her tee shot in the water, went to the drop area proceeded to shank that shot, as we were driving up she said, "I think that's the last ball I have". Her chip shot was towards the water in my direction and she thinned it so I quickly ran over and kept it from going in the water. As she walked over she said thank you, then jokingly said if it had went in she could have quit. To which I replied, "I would have let it go in but I noticed it was a Titelist and he may need it in a couple holes". We all got a laugh and she actually seemed to start enjoying herself after that.

At muni's around here I get paired up with a lot of guys who say, "that's good" on my putts. I usually just tell them, "gotta hole it out for my handicap" and that usually lets them know how I play. If not I just say it everytime they tell me it's good, they eventually catch on. The last time someone hit my ball back to me I said, "please don't do that" and put it back on the spot and putted my ball.

[firstcut]

I believe the proper ruling requires you to beat him about the neck and head with said putter

No joke. I'm amazed about once a week by someone posting here that gets pushed around on a course and wants to know what the "rules" say he should have done.. This one (like most) is pretty simple.. A "hey jackass, quick fooking with my ball" (in your own kind, gentle way of course) about covers it.

It's not like I'm a tuff guy or anything... it doesn't take a hard ass to stand up to someone on a freekin golf course. Maybe playing a lot of golf with my dad who's very direct helps, but I've never had anyone do anything inappropriate more than once during a round. Not because I threatened them, but because I asked them to stop the bad behavior. And even then, I can't remember the last time I had to do so.. Guess I get lucky with my walk on partners...

[Saks]

This unbelievable! When playing ultra casual rounds with close mates, we will pick up someones ball if they have just lag putted or chipped to a couple of inches or so and throw it back...

In your situation, I will "concede" the putt for your par. Nice 89!!

[GolferDot]

I don't know about the ruling, but I would have pulled my driver outta my bag and asked him to deflect the next one.

[Surefire]

Lots of anger in the last couple of posts.

Did you actually just say to him politely, 'Please don't move my ball this time.' on the 2nd attempt. I can't see this mentioned anywhere, but might have resolved the problem.

Might also have been worth asking why he did what he did.