Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

[The Recreational Golfer]

In whatever era he played, Jack would have found a way to excel. Tiger, too, and Hogan, despite the loony surmise on another thread.

[camper6]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Now I can start to get a glimmer of why iacas deleted your posts.  As far as whether I approve of how he moderates these boards, which you asked me about, I don't have a problem with it.  It is his ballpark and he does a much better job than the old Golf Channel board moderators did.  If you don't like how he does things there are other boards.  Or start one of your own and run it however you want.

This is the kind of post I don't admire in a democracy.

We do things the way we want to and if you don't like it go somewhere else?

That hardly leads to good discussions with another point of view.

We then get preaching to the choir and everyone is happy?

Should the board just play a song when someone posts something a little controversial?

Like:

"Hit the road Jack, and don't come back no more, no more, no more, no more".

[iacas]

Originally Posted by camper6

This is the kind of post I don't admire in a democracy.

Where's the democracy?

Chas's posts weren't "controversial." They were simply off topic.

Speaking of which, this isn't on topic, so let's get back to it now, please.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by GaryH

My vote goes to Jack.

Tiger's A game is better than Jack's.  But Jack's longevity and character gives him the edge.  Tiger's incredible mental strength has gone and that's because of his own character flaws.  That's a huge part of golf and Tiger didn't have the longevity in this aspect.  His chickens came home to roost.

Also, there's the somewhat important issue of driving.  Tiger can't keep the damn ball in play!  I've been so disappointed with this aspect of his game.  He is an astonishing talent but he has no control over his driver, and this has been the case for years!  I just cannot reconcile this.  Why can he not work this out and get it sorted?  It's such a let down and a big black mark over him.  I've been very frustrated watching this over the years.  Jack was long and straight.

I know how you feel.  I always felt that way about Jack's terrible short game and bunker game.  He gave away a US Open to Trevino by not being able to get out of a sand trap, for goodness sake.

No I don't really feel that way, but it shows how easy it is to find something to criticize someone for when you are bound and determined to criticize him.

Originally Posted by camper6

This is the kind of post I don't admire in a democracy.

We do things the way we want to and if you don't like it go somewhere else?

That hardly leads to good discussions with another point of view.

We then get preaching to the choir and everyone is happy?

Should the board just play a song when someone posts something a little controversial?

Like:

"Hit the road Jack, and don't come back no more, no more, no more, no more".

For someone who claims the number of years you do it is hard to imagine that in that time you never grasped the difference between a democratic government and a private place of business.  A clue:  This is the latter.  And IMO it is better run that our democratic government in DC.  Eric does a pretty good job in separating his roles as moderator and participant.

[lewisgl]

Excellent win by Tiger in the Memorial tournament today and this will no doubt add some fuel to this fire.   My vote still goes to Jack but that will eventually change if Tiger wins more majors.   I think it would have been awesome to see the two go head to head in their prime. Would have been one hell of a rivalry.   I think Jack was more consistent with the ball striking and a better driver of the golf ball probably, and the equipment he used was leagues inferior to what has been used the last 10 or 15 years.  Tiger has the better short game.   Nicklaus probably would have won some more majors if he had a short game on the same level as Tiger and Jack admits that he should have practiced the short game more.   Perhaps he would have if he had to play against Tiger on a weekly basis.     Putting seems to be fairly equal, with a slight edge to Tiger maybe.  .

Tiger had a great tournament this week and he might be poised to win another major this year.   If he continues to play like he did this week, it is really going to be fun to watch, and good for the game too.  Nothing that Tiger does would surprise me.  Very impressive to win 73 times before age 37.

[Zwick]

The guys on golf.com just answered the question for us: "Rick Lipsey: Jack. Tiger could win 20 more majors and 100 more regular Tour events, and it wouldn't matter. Jack is class, and that combined with his on-course record makes him No. 1. Period."

Now that's what I would call an unbiased, well rounded answer!

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Zwick

The guys on golf.com just answered the question for us: "Rick Lipsey: Jack. Tiger could win 20 more majors and 100 more regular Tour events, and it wouldn't matter. Jack is class, and that combined with his on-course record makes him No. 1. Period."

Now that's what I would call an unbiased, well rounded answer!

Indeed.

The issue isn't which golfer is the best man. It's which man is the best golfer.

[newtogolf]

Very true, you see this in all sports.  Fans hold on to the very last stat they can provides proof their favorite is the best, then that stat gets broken and they cling to the overall man.  Old time baseball fans still think Babe Ruth was the greatest HR hitter of all time even though Aaron and Bonds broke his record.

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Indeed.

The issue isn't which golfer is the best man. It's which man is the best golfer.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Very true, you see this in all sports.  Fans hold on to the very last stat they can provides proof their favorite is the best, then that stat gets broken and they cling to the overall man.  Old time baseball fans still think Babe Ruth was the greatest HR hitter of all time even though Aaron and Bonds broke his record.

And conversely, many don't give Ty Cobb his due cuz he was, by accounts, an arrogant SOB. And Pete Rose is still the holder of most hits in the history of baseball & not in the HOF.

So, for people to start inserting stuff like 'Tiger cheated on his wife' or whatever, it's not relevant to the discussion of which man was the best golfer. If you want to factor character in, then it's Jack by a landslide. He has lived his life with class & no hint of controversy. But that's not what this debate is about.

[GaryH]

Originally Posted by GaryH

My vote goes to Jack.

Tiger's A game is better than Jack's.  But Jack's longevity and character gives him the edge.  Tiger's incredible mental strength has gone and that's because of his own character flaws.  That's a huge part of golf and Tiger didn't have the longevity in this aspect.  His chickens came home to roost.

Also, there's the somewhat important issue of driving.  Tiger can't keep the damn ball in play!  I've been so disappointed with this aspect of his game.  He is an astonishing talent but he has no control over his driver, and this has been the case for years!  I just cannot reconcile this.  Why can he not work this out and get it sorted?  It's such a let down and a big black mark over him.  I've been very frustrated watching this over the years.  Jack was long and straight.

Originally Posted by turtleback

I know how you feel.  I always felt that way about Jack's terrible short game and bunker game.  He gave away a US Open to Trevino by not being able to get out of a sand trap, for goodness sake.

No I don't really feel that way, but it shows how easy it is to find something to criticize someone for when you are bound and determined to criticize him.

Oh hello, we've got a mindreader here!

Yes, that's right, i am "bound and determined" to criticise Tiger.  If you say so.  And there's me just thinking i was participating in an interesting discussion about who is the better player.....

Tiger's driving really disappoints me.  That's all.  It's nothing personal against Tiger, just an observation on his game.  Believe it or not, i don't have any personal bias towards either Jack or Tiger.  I've no emotional attachment to either really.

[x129]

Jack was a slow player. Thats far worse than banging a bunch of ladies on the side. At least that is the impression I get from the slow play threads. Not to mention smoking on the golf course.  There are some other threads on how annoying that is.

Quote:

And conversely, many don't give Ty Cobb his due cuz he was, by accounts, an arrogant SOB. And Pete Rose is still the holder of most hits in the history of baseball & not in the HOF.

So, for people to start inserting stuff like 'Tiger cheated on his wife' or whatever, it's not relevant to the discussion of which man was the best golfer. If you want to factor character in, then it's Jack by a landslide. He has lived his life with class & no hint of controversy. But that's not what this debate is about.

[k-troop]

Well, this debate is over.  Tiger's FB post from last night, after the win:  " Winning No. 73 at Jack's place is extra special. Honored to be associated with the greatest of all time. "

[Josh531]

There is a LOT of talent both in Jack's day and today with Tiger.  A lot of talk has been made about how Tiger isn't as good as he used to be.  Maybe that's true, but only to a certain extent.  Think about how he came onto the scene.  What made him dominating was how he did things differently than other golfers.  As with any other sport where a person with a new style of play enters, everyone else seems to get left in the dust.  After a few years, however, everyone catches up and the talent evens out a bit.  I don't think Tiger is as bad as people think.  Yes, he isn't playing as well as he used to, but look at how the talent has grown and developed.  I think its more that everyone caught up to HIM and now its a more even playing field.

Jack did have plenty to worry about in competition, but also look at how long Jack played vs Tiger...Pretty impressive for Jack huh?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by GaryH

Tiger's driving really disappoints me.  That's all.  It's nothing personal against Tiger, just an observation on his game.  Believe it or not, i don't have any personal bias towards either Jack or Tiger.  I've no emotional attachment to either really.

His driving disappoints you? He hit 13 of 14 fairways on Sunday. He's

His driving is a lot better than it used to be. He's top 30 in driving distance and top 25 in driving accuracy , leading to a #1 ranking in Total Driving . He's T1 in Ball Striking, too.

Originally Posted by k-troop

Well, this debate is over.  Tiger's FB post from last night, after the win:  "Winning No. 73 at Jack's place is extra special. Honored to be associated with the greatest of all time."

Nice try. That's Tiger's (public) opinion, and since Tiger's still playing, it can still change.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Josh531

Jack did have plenty to worry about in competition, but also look at how long Jack played vs Tiger...Pretty impressive for Jack huh?

Due respect, thus has to be the dumbest comment on this thread.  How long Jack played vs. Tiger?  We have no idea, right now, how long Tiger will play, but you give the longevity advantage to Jack?  How dare Tiger not to have played for 40 years yet.  Oh wait, he isn't even 40 years old, yet.

Sheesh!!

[sean_miller]

I think I may have said this before, but the way they're worded, both options are correct.

[GaryH]

Originally Posted by iacas

His driving disappoints you? He hit 13 of 14 fairways on Sunday. He's

His driving is a lot better than it used to be. He's top 30 in driving distance and top 25 in driving accuracy, leading to a #1 ranking in Total Driving. He's T1 in Ball Striking, too.

I'm basing my opinion on his driving on what i've seen over a period of years.  I confess i generally only watch majors.  But i have seen numerous rounds where he has had awful trouble with his driver.  I can't have imagined this.  In Hank's book he talks about the problems he's had with his driver.  The whole golfing world has been discussing it.  It's definitely been an issue for him over the years, and yes, for a player vying for the title of GOAT this does disappoint me. He may still be the greatest ever, he is awesome, but i've been disappointed with his driving.

[RollTide]

Originally Posted by GaryH

I'm basing my opinion on his driving on what i've seen over a period of years.  I confess i generally only watch majors.  But i have seen numerous rounds where he has had awful trouble with his driver.  I can't have imagined this.  In Hank's book he talks about the problems he's had with his driver.  The whole golfing world has been discussing it.  It's definitely been an issue for him over the years, and yes, for a player vying for the title of GOAT this does disappoint me. He may still be the greatest ever, he is awesome, but i've been disappointed with his driving.

FWIW, Tiger hasn't drove the ball as straight as he has this year for an entire season since 2002 (pre Hank Haney).