The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[Ernest Jones]

Here @32quattro

Hope this helps...

[saevel25]

Here @32quattro

Hope this helps...

Well played sir

Good use of Analyzr. Didn't know you could use it to analyze a roulette wheel. Mutlitasker that program is.

[iacas]

Man I just replied to your previous one, I didn't see this one, my wife is killing me on the back (I love golf !) Let me sink this in and I elaborate.I forgot to ask you about the diagram, I had some questions for you, hold on

I deleted that response. It was a mess, and honestly, I didn't have any desire to go back in and re-format it for you or untangle who you were quoting and when.

Please use the very easy tools here to quote and respond properly.

---

Let's start fresh a bit: what do you believe is occurring in these photos:

By that I mean what do you think is actually happening. Not what the player feels, not what you might need to feel, but what is actually happening?

These guys were pretty good ball-strikers.

So was this guy:

[32quattro]

I deleted that response. It was a mess, and honestly, I didn't have any desire to go back in and re-format it for you or untangle who you were quoting and when.

Please use the very easy tools here to quote and respond properly.

What do you mean you cancel my post because was a mess. To me is easier to quote without all those pictures that are creating pages for nothing. Send me my post and I will adjust myself

[iacas]

What do you mean you cancel my post because was a mess. To me is easier to quote without all those pictures that are creating pages for nothing. Send me my post and I will adjust myself

Your post was a mess. I was not going to take the time to re-format it for you, nor was I going to take the time to look back through the post to figure out where your quotes stopped and started. You can delete pictures when you quote. Just use the quote tools that exist, and edit out the parts you want to remove.

I have re-set the conversation. We're starting fresh, right here, right now.

Describe for us please what you see in those three pictures.

[32quattro]

Your post was a mess. I was not going to take the time to re-format it for you, nor was I going to take the time to look back through the post to figure out where your quotes stopped and started. You can delete pictures when you quote. Just use the quote tools that exist, and edit out the parts you want to remove.

I have re-set the conversation. We're starting fresh, right here, right now.

Describe for us please what you see in those three pictures.

Fresh I like it. I don't know how to make multi quote. How can in one post put more quotes ? Copy / paste , dragging ?

[iacas]

Fresh I like it. I don't know how to make multi quote. How can in one post put more quotes ? Copy / paste , dragging ?

If you click the link I gave you before:

You'll see this:

Reply with a Multi-Quote

Replying with a multi-quotation allows you to respond in line to another poster and include context to your replies or to reply to multiple posters within the same reply.

Navigate to the posts you would like to respond to.

At the bottom of each post, toward the right, you will see the "Multi" button with two sets of quote marks.  Click here on each of the posts you would like to quote.

When you are satisfied with your selections, click the "Quote" button on one of the posts you would like to quote, or the "Post a Reply" button toward the bottom.

The text editor will open with the posts you have quoted.  When you are finished replying to the posts, click the "Submit Post" button at the bottom of the editor.

C'mon. This thread isn't for forum tech support.

[1armygolfer]

@32quattro here is an overhead view of Martin Chuck demonstrating the sequence (and YES forward slide) of the hips.

http://www.revolutiongolf.com/instruction/video-collections/experts/experts/martin-chuck/videos/hip-movement-is-critical-to-swing-success

[billchao]

b) I don't care why a golfer slides his hips forward, just that they do.

This is a pretty important point, IMO. I've read a lot of arguments people have made back and forth on this subject and I think a lot of times, people get too hung up on semantics or feels, instead of observing what is actually happening. It doesn't matter that Hogan felt like his swing was pure rotation. It doesn't matter if any other pro describes his transition move as a hip bump, or falling onto the left side, or planting the left heel back on the ground. What matters is that hip sliding happens. For the best ballstrikers the hips do slide, translate, shift, whatever you want to call it, towards the target and it's an important piece of the swing that a lot of amateurs actively train themselves out of because they're misinformed and believe they need to "swing in a barrel" or something like that. Sure, you can feel like you're swinging in a barrel, but you better have a pretty significant lateral shift to your hips already like Hogan, or it better be a pretty wide barrel ;-)

[32quattro]

I deleted that response. It was a mess, and honestly, I didn't have any desire to go back in and re-format it for you or untangle who you were quoting and when.

Please use the very easy tools here to quote and respond properly.

Let's start fresh a bit: what do you believe is occurring in these photos:

By that I mean what do you think is actually happening. Not what the player feels, not what you might need to feel, but what is actually happening?

These guys were pretty good ball-strikers.

Could I break this pic and just start with Hogan ?

Here above is the Great Ben Hogan sliding forward. Great ball striker. He won around 30 tournaments between 1946 to 1950 after the major accident he had and various injuries he will win 6 more. Correct me if the numbers are wrong. He broke his pelvis and changed swing. He won with both swings yes but the first was more powerfull resulting in many more wins in tournaments.

I draw the lines in my swing analyser but I don't know why they move in a different position when pressing camera. Sorry for that

The last one I just like it, his right foot is down, his hands are close to him, is working the ball from the inside and is smiling !

[mvmac]

Again, tour players from present and past some bump left, some don't. I understand you want evidence of but let me pause on these and the diagram

Now you're changing your story. In reality all good players do, the hips transfer forward as they open up.

There is A LOT of evidence out there to back this up.

@32quattro, I'm going to have to insist that you bring something to the table here, as this conversation has not really moved along much. You keep shifting goalposts and playing word games. You keep saying they do not slide, and then that some do, and that good ball strikers do not, etc. Enough, man.

+1

[iacas]

Originally Posted by 32quattro

Could I break this pic and just start with Hogan ?

Could you "break" the picture? You could try. I haven't seen you do it yet. I'm not sure what those Hogan photos you posted are, but… they don't "break" anything I've shown.

Earlier Hogan, it turns out, slid his hips forward too.

Here above is the Great Ben Hogan sliding forward. Great ball striker. He won around 30 tournaments between 1946 to 1950 after the major accident he had and various injuries he will win 6 more. Correct me if the numbers are wrong. He broke his pelvis and changed swing. He won with both swings yes but the first was more powerfull resulting in many more wins in tournaments.

He won 11 times after the accident and played a LOT fewer golf tournaments.

I draw the lines in my swing analyser but I don't know why they move in a different position when pressing camera. Sorry for that

I don't see any lines, nor do I see the point in looking at them from down the line when we're talking about sliding the hips forward (toward the target).

Furthermore, your pictures stop very early in the downswing. Though Hogan has started sliding by then, he has not completed sliding by then.

So again I'm going to re-iterate my earlier question:

Originally Posted by iacas

Let's start fresh a bit: what do you believe is occurring in these photos:

By that I mean what do you think is actually happening. Not what the player feels, not what you might need to feel, but what is actually happening?

These guys were pretty good ball-strikers.

So was this guy:

Have at it.

[Vinsk]

"This is a slide forward that I can't see in any good player."

@32quattro

These were your words. So by simple logic you are either saying that you do not see Tiger's hips as (sliding, shifting,moving..etc) forward, or that Tiger is a not a good player. You have consistently gone back and fourth on your position and I'm actually at a loss what you think now. You started off by disagreeing with Iacas' post regarding the importance of the hip slide. Since then you have done absolutely nothing to prove it is not a move done by professional golfers. In fact, all you've proven to me at this point is that you're not really in tune with what takes place in a golf swing whatsoever. You're stating that you do not see a lateral move of the pelvis is no different than looking at the above photo of Tiger and saying "that's not a golf club, it's a hockey stick".

[iacas]

"This is a slide forward that I can't see in any good player."

@32quattro

These were your words. So by simple logic you are either saying that you do not see Tiger's hips as (sliding, shifting,moving..etc) forward, or that Tiger is a not a good player. You have consistently gone back and fourth on your position and I'm actually at a loss what you think now. You started off by disagreeing with Iacas' post regarding the importance of the hip slide. Since then you have done absolutely nothing to prove it is not a move done by professional golfers. In fact, all you've proven to me at this point is that you're not really in tune with what takes place in a golf swing whatsoever. You're stating that you do not see a lateral move of the pelvis is no different than looking at the above photo of Tiger and saying "that's not a golf club, it's a hockey stick".

Okay, @Vinsk . I appreciate the support, but let's not get caustic or whatever, please. Let's instead just stick to the topic.

[Vinsk]

I apologize. I don't have your patience. Now, With the hip slide as I will call it, I tend to struggle with this movement depending on how much weight shift I put on my back leg. I think sometimes I tend to sway back in order to perform the forward slide. Almost like a hip waggle. I've watched all the DVDs (5SK) but if I go beyond the simple quarter swing done at the beginning....I seem to fall apart.

[32quattro]

Could you "break" the picture? You could try. I haven't seen you do it yet. I'm not sure what those Hogan photos you posted are, but… they don't "break" anything I've shown.

Earlier Hogan, it turns out, slid his hips forward too.

I don't see any lines, nor do I see the point in looking at them from down the line when we're talking about sliding the hips forward (toward the target).

Furthermore, your pictures stop very early in the downswing. Though Hogan has started sliding by then, he has not completed sliding by then.

So again I'm going to re-iterate my earlier question:

Have at it.

You are running away (far early) from those pictures I posted . I am showing you that Ben Hogan has 2 different moves in early transition. It is not me saying it first. As you can easily understand with some lines I finally added (my bad) there are 2 different situations:

-Start of transition. Left knee moves forward and around. Yes in both

-Start of transition. Right side doesn't move (younger). Right side move (older)

Q. Why it doesn't move ?

The difference between your and my point is in the early transition (imo). I am saying there's a  squatting and not a straight move forward/bump to the left. That's why my pictures stop very early. I accepted your challenge and it's me that has to prove something to you, not the way around.

Q. Diagram. Could you please give me the scale proportioner measurements of that diagram ? I need to make a calculation.

Q. How can you show more pics on the same line as you do ? Thanks

[billchao]

The difference between your and my point is in the early transition (imo). I am saying there's a  squatting and not a straight move forward/bump to the left.

It is becoming abundantly clear that not only are you not arguing your original point anymore, but what your arguing is OT for this thread. This is the "SLIDE Your Hips" thread. It's not the "What was Ben Hogan's Transition Move?" thread. It's irrelevant what Hogan's (or Snead's, or Tiger's, Jack's, etc.) transition move is, the fact is they ALL have a lateral hip movement in their downswings.

Like we say around here, feel isn't real, and feels are rather unique to each individual. Some golfers need to feel a squat. Some need to feel a hip bump, slide, whatever. It doesn't matter what they need to feel as long as it achieves what is desired.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="32quattro" url="/t/29616/the-biggest-secret-slide-your-hips/780_30#post_1155223"]   The difference between your and my point is in the early transition (imo). I am saying there's a  squatting and not a straight move forward/bump to the left. [/QUOTE] It is becoming abundantly clear that not only are you not arguing your original point anymore, but what your arguing is OT for this thread. This is the "SLIDE Your Hips" thread. It's not the "What was Ben Hogan's Transition Move?" thread. It's irrelevant what Hogan's (or Snead's, or Tiger's, Jack's, etc.) transition move is, the fact is they ALL have a lateral hip movement in their downswings. Like we say around here, feel isn't real, and feels are rather unique to each individual. Some golfers need to feel a squat. Some need to feel a hip bump, slide, whatever. It doesn't matter what they need to feel as long as it achieves what is desired.

I would think what muscles are active during the transition could cause this hip slide. I just noticed that I do slide my hips first once I started using my legs and hips to initiate my swing. It's pretty clear that any player with power behind their swing does it. If you don't the swing just lacks oomph.