The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[Jay28]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Both when done incorrectly.

I may have the wrong understanding.  Right now I am not transferring ANY weight to the right leg or the left leg in the backswing.  I just maintain a 55/45 (ish) weight distribution...i.e. slightly more weight on the left side and then the weight moves further to the left on the downswing.  

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Jay28 said:

I may have the wrong understanding.  Right now I am not transferring ANY weight to the right leg or the left leg in the backswing.  I just maintain a 55/45 (ish) weight distribution...i.e. slightly more weight on the left side and then the weight moves further to the left on the downswing.  

Two things.

1. Feel ain’t real. Don’t rely on feels for what you’re actually doing.

2. You might be doing it poorly then.

[Jay28]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

Two things.

1. Feel ain’t real. Don’t rely on feels for what you’re actually doing.

2. You might be doing it poorly then.

I only rely on the results. So far so good, but early days.

Sometimes just changing something gives a psychological boost and I just hit it better because of that.  I'll keep at it.

 

 

[iacas]

You can also start down a bad path after seeing initially good results.

Weight doesn’t stay forward in an S&T swing done properly and certainly pressure doesn’t.

A good S&T backswing is just a centered pivot.

[nevets88]

19 hours ago, iacas said:

Not sure what you mean. It's inline with a lot of golf swings

It just has the exact look of the swing that Andy and that other guy, Bennett (?), had. 

I’m one of those whom overdid the weight forward. My head still leans towards the target to this day. 

[boogielicious]

19 hours ago, nevets88 said:

It just has the exact look of the swing that Andy and that other guy, Bennett (?), had. 

I’m one of those whom overdid the weight forward. My head still leans towards the target to this day. 

I had to undo that as well. I still have to be conscious of it.

[GolfLug]

My guess is lot of folks simply bend sideways towards the target in an effort to keep weight forward instead of rotating in the backswing. And then reverse the bend in the downswing, causing them to come crashing down on the ball with a steep angle.

On 5/25/2019 at 6:55 AM, iacas said:

 

 

A good S&T backswing is just a centered pivot.

Yes, minding first two keys(5S) with a good pivot solves 99 percent of my ills.

[Tim Carry]

Thank you for helping to keep stack and tilt alive. I have tried just about every method out there of the past thirty years. I watched the youtube videos a few times and tried it on the range. Unbelievable, contact every time. Even the odd miss hit was just a thin. Bought the book and read it cover to cover. Hit the range again and great contact every time again. Took it to the course yesterday and shot my lowest round this by 8 strokes. The only real problem left is some direction inconsistencies caused by my wrists. It will take time to stop doing the normal release of the conventional swing.

[Jay28]

Have to say things are still working well - really good contact with the irons AND fairway woods/Driver.

I am certain that the biggest difference is the elimination of sway.  My head stays pretty much in the same place in relation to the ball till well after impact - where before it was moving back and up.

One problem is some pulls left with wedges. I think this is to do with the inside path of the club on the backswing and coming over the top a touch on the downswing.  I am working on that.  Also working on really relaxing the arms to try and increase clubhead speed. Driver clubhead speed was 83mph (ouch)... managed to get to 88 consistently.

Still just playing the par3 course at the moment and hitting at the range...1st full round is on Sunday. My club course is longish, just under 7000 yards and a par 73.  Hoping to break 90.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Jay28

[Tim Carry]

Still just a few rounds in on learning this swing but made two big discoveries. The first one was I was not able to slide the hips far enough for the driver. I reread the book an noticed outward pressure on the knees. It added 3-4 inches of slide without effort. The second one was "arms straight". I kept concentrating on my left arm but had trouble getting it to straighten fully at impact. This resulting in some thins and fats. Then I started working on keeping the right arm connected on one of the drills and now the left is straight every time, with consistent low point after the ball. I am excited about the last part.

[Tim Carry]

Three more rounds in the eighties (which is great for me). I have started to have straight pushes right. I have corrected it by not taking it so much inside. It makes it a little less S&T but it works for me. No S&T instructors in my part of the world. We have Golftec and at least I would get the numbers.

[iacas]

18 hours ago, Tim Carry said:

No S&T instructors in my part of the world. We have Golftec

Slight contradiction there… 😉

[Tim Carry]

Handicap still going down. I started following Steve Johnston because he was playing with S&T for a bit. He has gone on to his own method but still preaches stacking and staying centered. The magic for me was when he drew a line on the inside of his right forearm and said try and point that up during the backswing right up to impact. Totally stopped the pushes right and added 10 yards to the irons. The move has cured many things.

[birdie seeker]

Tom Saguto teaches  S&T. He does a video on you tube "Was Ben Hogan a Stack & tilter". It's about 25 minutes long & done very well.

[iacas]

5 hours ago, birdie seeker said:

Tom Saguto teaches  S&T. He does a video on you tube "Was Ben Hogan a Stack & tilter". It's about 25 minutes long & done very well.

He was not.

🙂

[birdie seeker]

On 1/30/2023 at 7:17 AM, iacas said:

He was not.

🙂

Did you watch the video?

 

[iacas]

3 hours ago, birdie seeker said:

Did you watch the video?

I don't have to, and you didn't embed it. (https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-videos/) 😄 

Hogan was not S&T.

---

Look, I'll level with you.

• I was one of the first few S&T instructors.
• I even created this topic (highlight the white text at the end of the first post, though).
• We never taught S&T the way it's taught by most.
• We "left" the S&T "camp" and have probably done the most to show faults with it than anyone else. For example… this topic.
• I was also younger and dumber. I know a whole lot more now.
• I have issues with a few of S&T stuff. Other parts are fine. "Hands in" is high on my list of dislikes.

I could go on, but… you're not just talking to someone looking to bash S&T.

Unless you want to twist S&T so far as to basically render the definition useless, Hogan wasn't S&T.

• Weight Forward - Hogan shifted weight and pressure to his right side during the backswing.
• Shoulder Down - Every good golfer does this. Left side bend is not nearly as much as S&T has you believe. Most of the side bend comes from the inclination of the hips.
• Hands In - Really not a good thing for golfers to do. Hogan's trail elbow did not go "around" him like "hands in" implies strongly that you must do. Hogan's hands went UP some, and the "in" was just a matter of rotation.
• Leg Straight - Many golfers extend their trail knee some.
• Arms Straight - Most golfers do this too. This isn't super-S&T specific.
• Tuck Butt - They seem to vacillate on having this in there. Good golfers finish that way, generally.

So…?

Look, here's the deal: do something because it makes sense to you, because you like it, whatever. Every crackpot (and more than a few decent instructors) claim Ben Hogan for themselves. To what end? Are you Ben Hogan? There might be hundreds of golfers who hit the ball as well as Ben Hogan these days. We have learned a LOT about the golf swing since Ben died.

[Double Mocha Man]

I have toyed with stack & tilt... I have been accused of stack & tilt.  But Mr. Hogan... nope.