PGA Fiasco

[ctyankee]

Is this true,..? if so, once you ground your club you can do it again and again,...? I have a hard time believing that but I've yet to try and look it up. It's seems to me that the rule is there so you don't alter the amount of sand behind you ball, so if you have a fried egg lie it might be worth it to ground your club 4 or 5 times giving you a better shot at good ball contact,...?

One penalty per attempted shot is the rule. Which makes sense. Otherwise, the penalty wouldn't fit the crime. As for taking a two-stroke penalty deliberately ... please. Even if you took three valid shots to get out of the bunker, they are better odds/results then three strokes (shot + penalty) and still perhaps in the bunker. Plus, I don't know anyone that would ever play with you again.

[zeg]

One penalty per attempted shot is the rule. Which makes sense. Otherwise, the penalty wouldn't fit the crime. As for taking a two-stroke penalty deliberately ... please. Even if you took three valid shots to get out of the bunker, they are better odds/results then three strokes (shot + penalty) and still perhaps in the bunker. Plus, I don't know anyone that would ever play with you again.

I think he's thinking along the lines of you start by accidentally grounding the club, so you've got a penalty. Why not take advantage of that by "doing it right" and cleaning things up, under the theory that you'll not get another penalty for grounding again?

Which, of course, is why you'd be penalized with something far harsher---honest mistakes are treated differently from attempts to gain an unfair advantage.

[The Recreational Golfer]

I was thinking, before all this happened, how can a guy this good, with a major championship in the palm of his hand, needing just to get the ball in the fairway to win it, hit such a wild drive? This is the second major this year that his swing has failed him under pressure. The problem here as I see isn't "bunker/not a bunker." It's his swing that lost him the tournament.

As for the bunker/waste area controversy, does anyone remember the details of the Stewart Cink incident a few years ago when the same question arose but he got a pass?

[Zeph]

If I recall correctly, Stewart was standing in a bunker, hitting the ball off grass close to the green. He hit the ball over the green and into another bunker (or the same one, coiling around the green). After his first shot, his caddie raked the bunker. He went to hit his next shot from the bunker, in the bunker this time. He got penalized for testing the condition of the bunker before hitting from it. Not himself, but his caddie as an extension of himself. The caddie could have given Cink some tips on how firm the bunker sand was.

[ctyankee]

I was thinking, before all this happened, how can a guy this good, with a major championship in the palm of his hand, needing just to get the ball in the fairway to win it, hit such a wild drive? This is the second major this year that his swing has failed him under pressure. The problem here as I see isn't "bunker/not a bunker." It's his swing that lost him the tournament.

How can Monty with only a 7 iron in his hands muck it up so badly on the 72nd hole of a major? Why did Norman fall apart at the Masters? Why does a guy shoot 62, 63, 62, 79 and lose a tournament after leading the final day by 6 strokes? Why do amateurs who never hook the ball into the trees on a certain hole (ahem) hook the ball into the darn trees on that hole? Pressure. Welcome to tournament golf.

[Harmonious]

How can Monty with only a 7 iron in his hands muck it up so badly on the 72nd hole of a major? Why did Norman fall apart at the Masters? Why does a guy shoot 62, 63, 62, 79 and lose a tournament after leading the final day by 6 strokes? Why do amateurs who never hook the ball into the trees on a certain hole (ahem) hook the ball into the darn trees on that hole? Pressure. Welcome to tournament golf.

Isn't that the truth! The names of those who would have seemed to have a major wrapped up, only to falter, is a long one. Mickelson, Montgomery, Vandevelde, Reid, Norman, Bjorn, Perry, Sneed, Snead, Palmer, Hoch, Sanders. I'm sure there are many, many more that could be added to the list.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Only a few guys in your list, have won a major. The rest didn't because they didn't have that part figured out. Two guys who did were Hogan and Faldo, who expressly built a pressure-proof swing so they could win majors. That's what I'm talking about Dustin Johnson needing to do. And the 18th hole wasn't the only hole on which he hit a wild drive on that day.

Compare Johnson with Oosthuizen, who, with a major in the palm of his hand, had the most boring round of golf you've seen in ages -- fairway, green, putt, putt x18 -- and won.

[Fat Slice]

I just saw a video where Johnson said "At NO TIME did I think I was in a bunker." Hmm. That doesn't jive with me. If he was really sure he was *not* in a bunker, he would have taken some practice swings and made contact with the ground. Instead, he was super careful not to touch it (after his first thoughtless touch)....just like a guy who knows he is...ahhh....IN A BUNKER.

He had a brain fart, grounded his club, realized his (potential) mistake, and played the shot as if he were in a hazard.

So saying "at no point" did he ever think he was in a bunker just doesn't wash with me.

[golfro]

I just saw a video where Johnson said "At NO TIME did I think I was in a bunker." Hmm. That doesn't jive with me. If he was really sure he was *not* in a bunker, he would have taken some practice swings and made contact with the ground. Instead, he was super careful not to touch it (after his first thoughtless touch)....just like a guy who knows he is...ahhh....IN A BUNKER.

what are you talking about... the club was grounded until he took the backswing...

[Fat Slice]

He wasn't hovering the club over the sand? That's what it looked like to me anyway. And why no practice swings? Why not test the sand if he thinks it is OK to do so?

[zeg]

As I recall, he grounded, took a practice swing that clipped the sand a bit, then stepped off, looked around, started to set back up, then said something to the crowd due to the moving shadows on his ball, then set up, grounded, and hit the ball. So he did have a practice swing, but it wasn't immediately before the stroke. From a lie that clean, I don't think it's surprising not to see more of a practice swing.

[PooN]

From 0:22 in this video:

Farhety, "He's got 233 yards to the flagstick." Faldo, "Off sand." Nantz, "It's actually one of those, you know, 1000 plus bunkers here." Everyone knew it was a bunker. As for the people standing in the bunker... they were marshalls. The spectators were moved to the lip of the bunker. The people inside the bunker were marshalls holding everyone back. (A woman in the upper right corner and an older gentleman with the folding chair next to her)

[Zeph]

Good picture there. Some bunkers are hardly larger than what we see on that picture. If you can't tell that is a bunker, you've got sand in your eyes.

[TheGeekGolfer]

From 0:22 in this video:

You know...after watching it again...I think you're right. Good job, I think those are marshalls in the bunker to the top right, making sure no one falls in the bunker or does something stupid. Plus...LOOK at how MUCH sand you CAN see! Gee...maybe I'm in a bunker!

The ONLY question could be is the line of the bunker to the right of the ball and the area his ball is in a 'spill-over' that was trampled down and created by people walking through it?

[Rochester]

It was really an out of control situation. Even earlier when Tiger hit up in that general area (though not as far offline and further back) He was hitting a 3 wood I believe. People were so close to his line I actually closed my eyes when he swung. Ball above his feet 3 wood off the scruff. He could have easily pushed that just a bit right and killed someone.

I was there when Tiger took his second shot. I had to move to create a lane for him to shoot. I moved well back of the first line of people, because I too thought that if he muffed the shot at all, someone would die. The ball sounded like an F16 coming out of there, and he put it on the green. Unbelievable.

Whistling Straits is a great place for a tournament, unless you want every tournament to be in a cloned golf course that is just like every other golf course. 18 was just jam-packed when Tiger went through, so you can imagine what it was like when DJ came down the fairway. Being there gives you a lot of perspective, vs. seeing it on TV. Traps are everywhere, but you know they are traps. The tees, fairways and greens are like green velvet, but the rest of the course looks like a B17 just went through on a bombing run. It's a VERY interesting course, and all of the players play under the same conditions. DJ blew it. There wouldn't be a 1.3 million winners check if all of the fans weren't there, so you live with the conditions. I haven't heard one player complain about this. My perception was that they liked the course. Weekend after weekend they play courses that fundamentally look and play alike. Whistling Straits is a different, and interesting challenge.

[BonoVox]

I was there when Tiger took his second shot. I had to move to create a lane for him to shoot. I moved well back of the first line of people, because I too thought that if he muffed the shot at all, someone would die. The ball sounded like an F16 coming out of there, and he put it on the green. Unbelievable.

Thanks for posting your on scene perspective. WOW! Sounds like you recognized the danger. Hey it took the NHL having a child killed to put up nets behind the goals. Off road racing had 8 spectators killed just last weekend.

I hope the PGA takes a closer look at crowd control. I can count more than a couple of times where disaster could have happened this year from a shanked shot. (not talking long distance drop ins, but short distance screamers)

[Shanks A Million]

Thanks for posting your on scene perspective. WOW! Sounds like you recognized the danger. Hey it took the NHL having a child killed to put up nets behind the goals. Off road racing had 8 spectators killed just last weekend.

Yes, that needs to stop. One shank could severely injure, or maybe even kill someone. Spectators are fool hearty idiots. Maybe it's natures way of weeding out the idiots, but still, I would prefer to see them stand back.

[David K]

Well I didn't read all 18 pages of this thread but I'll reply to the original post. In my opinion any lie thats in sand should be considered a bunker whether it was specifically designed that way or not. I don't know why they need to make it more complicated then that. There is no reason why Dustin should have treated it like anything other than a bunker regardless of his surroundings.

It sucks how the whole situation played out but I don't think the PGA could have done it any differently. The official could have hinted to Dustin that it was a bunker but in the end its the player's and caddies responsibility.