Quickie Pitching Video - Golf Pitch Shot Technique

[AbsoluteTruths]

Slow down @Golfingdad I did read the thread. Your drawing was helpful and what I was looking for. Thanks.

And thanks @saevel25 for your more detailed description.

I am off to the range to try the glide.

[mvmac]

In basic terms bounce is the curve of the sole that brings the leading edge above the ground. Basically it helps keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. The word, "Glide" is a good term to describe how bounce helps the club with turf interaction.

Glide is such a great term you're going to see it in a lot of golf stores and in tour player's bags in 2015

[slamdunker]

Hey guys! Just found this site- looks pretty good!

I've been experimenting with the above pitching style for awhile. For some reason, when focusing on thumping the ground with the bounce, i still tend to hit fat shots (occasionally way behind the ball. What is a good fix for this? Was practicing some tonight, and basically was just trying, with a more neutral (weaker) grip than usual, to hit the ground with the bounce first, before the leading edge. But even still, the club will get stuck in the ground, and not glide, especially on poorer lies. I actually shanked a couple, too- does this mean that i am too in to out? (maybe try swinging left more? I think Utley recommends that). Also, am shanking occasionally from sand, now, too.

I have an old 56 degree Vokey. Would like to upgrade my wedges. Good idea to look into custom ones? I am 6'3, if that makes a difference.

Anyway, look forward to further browsing the site!

[mvmac]

Hey guys! Just found this site- looks pretty good!

I've been experimenting with the above pitching style for awhile. For some reason, when focusing on thumping the ground with the bounce, i still tend to hit fat shots (occasionally way behind the ball. What is a good fix for this?

Without seeing your pitching motion it's too tough to tell. If I had to guess I would say your weight might be back. Feel free to post a video here.

http://thesandtrap.com/f/4180/member-swings

[mvmac]

In addition to what Brandel and Frank are saying, notice how Kuchar isn't taking any turf, just brushing the grass.

[TheMadness]

I have been working on this shot and variants thereof this offseason.  I first started working on it after watching Paul Azinger's Golf Chanel Academy special.  He approaches it from a slightly different vantage point:  weight on the back foot, shallow angle of attack, and a decel finish.  But he is a big proponent of engaging the bounce and making sure the shaft is in a neutral position.

I must say, I really struggled with this shot.  I would hit some good ones, but from hardpan lies, I found it difficult to master on a consistent basis, and I hit a lot of skulls flying across the green or well past my intended target.  I assume that's because I hit the ball with the leading edge--thoughts?  Any other reason for skulling it?  I suppose I could have hit it above the equator, but I don't think that was it for most of the poor shots.

In any event, as I was about to give up on this technique, I tried to make sure I was doing it correctly, focusing on where my weight was (front foot) and ball position (front).  What I noticed as I started working through the problem was that my shaft was, at times, leaning a little bit away from the target.  When I went to a perfectly neutral shaft position, even slightly but just barely leaning toward the target, I got much better results.  I think what was happening is that when the shaft was leaning toward the target, even if only a bit, is that it would almost force me to flip the leading edge of the club at the ball in order to finish the swing.

On a similar note, I also noticed that I was trying to "help" the club a little too much by rotating the face open, again, sometimes just a bit, in order to set the leading edge further off the ground. While this did raise the leading edge up so that it wouldn't dig, it also allowed the leading edge to hit the ball first.  With this particular shot, any contact with the leading edge seems to be death.  So I had to make sure that I wasn't helping the club by keeping the leading edge where it naturally sits when I set the club down, trusting that when the shaft is in a neutral position, the normal bounce is enough to keep the leading edge from digging while still allowing the face of the club to transfer the energy to the ball.  So far, when I do the three things noted above--neutral to very slight shaft lean away from the target, weight on the front foot, and normal bounce, I am getting very good and consistent results.  I will have to practice more before I'm ready to put this in play, but I am very encouraged.  Sorry if I've covered things already said above, but it's a long thread!

I am interested in understanding the differences between this approach and Azinger and the merits of each.  I've had trouble doing it the Azinger way, but that could be (probably is) because I'm not doing it correctly.  I also think Azinger didn't really describe how he took the club back--it just sort of happened.  I think that is a difficult concept to communicate, but the "brushing the grass" with the right knuckles helped me, and once you set up correctly, I think you'll get the feel of letting the club drop into the ball.  But if you set up poorly as I first did, you can drop it all you want and you'll still skull it with regularity.

[natureboy]

I have been working on this shot and variants thereof this offseason.  I first started working on it after watching Paul Azinger's Golf Chanel Academy special.  He approaches it from a slightly different vantage point:  weight on the back foot, shallow angle of attack, and a decel finish.  But he is a big proponent of engaging the bounce and making sure the shaft is in a neutral position.

I must say, I really struggled with this shot.  I would hit some good ones, but from hardpan lies, I found it difficult to master on a consistent basis, and I hit a lot of skulls flying across the green or well past my intended target.  I assume that's because I hit the ball with the leading edge--thoughts?  Any other reason for skulling it?  I suppose I could have hit it above the equator, but I don't think that was it for most of the poor shots.

In any event, as I was about to give up on this technique, I tried to make sure I was doing it correctly, focusing on where my weight was (front foot) and ball position (front).  What I noticed as I started working through the problem was that my shaft was, at times, leaning a little bit away from the target.  When I went to a perfectly neutral shaft position, even slightly but just barely leaning toward the target, I got much better results.  I think what was happening is that when the shaft was leaning toward the target, even if only a bit, is that it would almost force me to flip the leading edge of the club at the ball in order to finish the swing.

On a similar note, I also noticed that I was trying to "help" the club a little too much by rotating the face open, again, sometimes just a bit, in order to set the leading edge further off the ground. While this did raise the leading edge up so that it wouldn't dig, it also allowed the leading edge to hit the ball first.  With this particular shot, any contact with the leading edge seems to be death.  So I had to make sure that I wasn't helping the club by keeping the leading edge where it naturally sits when I set the club down, trusting that when the shaft is in a neutral position, the normal bounce is enough to keep the leading edge from digging while still allowing the face of the club to transfer the energy to the ball.  So far, when I do the three things noted above--neutral to very slight shaft lean away from the target, weight on the front foot, and normal bounce, I am getting very good and consistent results.  I will have to practice more before I'm ready to put this in play, but I am very encouraged.  Sorry if I've covered things already said above, but it's a long thread!

I am interested in understanding the differences between this approach and Azinger and the merits of each.  I've had trouble doing it the Azinger way, but that could be (probably is) because I'm not doing it correctly.  I also think Azinger didn't really describe how he took the club back--it just sort of happened.  I think that is a difficult concept to communicate, but the "brushing the grass" with the right knuckles helped me, and once you set up correctly, I think you'll get the feel of letting the club drop into the ball.  But if you set up poorly as I first did, you can drop it all you want and you'll still skull it with regularity.

You know your technique better, but it's possible that your low point in brushing was actually behind the ball or moving away from the target on b/s or d/s.

For solid pitch / chip technique Brad Faxon talks about a 'feel' (which seems to be real if you put your cursor over Kuchar's cap in the video above) of his head moving toward the target slightly. This is accompanied (maybe enabled) by the subtle lower body action that Chamblee points out...a softening of the knees in reaction to the backswing. It helps insure weight and low point of the arc stays left - in front of the ball regardless of the amount the face is opened / bounce exposed.

[Golfingdad]

He approaches it from a slightly different vantage point:  weight on the back foot, shallow angle of attack, and a decel finish.

I wouldn't call that "slightly" different.  Shallow angle of attack sure, but the other two points are ENTIRELY the opposite of the important parts of this shot, as I understand it.  Weight should be lean towards being forward, and ball should be forward, and you definitely need to keep your speed as you go through.

[saevel25]

In addition to what Brandel and Frank are saying, notice how Kuchar isn't taking any turf, just brushing the grass.

I like how Brandel describes the left arm. I like to keep the left arm soft and at the finish the butt end of the club would fall into my left pocket if I let go off the club. Sometimes I'll even drop my hands in the finish to my left hip just as a reminder.

I wouldn't call that "slightly" different.  Shallow angle of attack sure, but the other two points are ENTIRELY the opposite of the important parts of this shot, as I understand it.  Weight should be lean towards being forward, and ball should be forward, and you definitely need to keep your speed as you go through.

Weight forward, weight stays forward, pivot around that front knee, and let the swing be lazy with speed. I like to think a lot of gravity working on the clubhead as I pivot.

[TheMadness]

I like how Brandel describes the left arm. I like to keep the left arm soft and at the finish the butt end of the club would fall into my left pocket if I let go off the club. Sometimes I'll even drop my hands in the finish to my left hip just as a reminder.

Weight forward, weight stays forward, pivot around that front knee, and let the swing be lazy with speed. I like to think a lot of gravity working on the clubhead as I pivot.

I actually liked Nobilo's response, as I don't feel that swing with my left arm.  I feel it with my right, so thinking about what the left arm is doing may not help someone like me much (it's not a question of being right/wrong, just a different feeling originating from the fact that I have a very dominant right arm).  That said, I will probably focus a little more on my left arm next time I practice and see if it makes a difference.  I'm skeptical, though, as I can rehearse the swing at home and it just feels like all the action is in my right arm--letting that arm "drop" and then a small release at the end.

[TheMadness]

I wouldn't call that "slightly" different.  Shallow angle of attack sure, but the other two points are ENTIRELY the opposite of the important parts of this shot, as I understand it.  Weight should be lean towards being forward, and ball should be forward, and you definitely need to keep your speed as you go through.

I can't recall right now, but I think Azinger plays the ball in the middle, which may explain why he is more comfortable with his weight in the back, which promotes a shallower swing.

[TheMadness]

You know your technique better, but it's possible that your low point in brushing was actually behind the ball or moving away from the target on b/s or d/s.

For solid pitch / chip technique Brad Faxon talks about a 'feel' (which seems to be real if you put your cursor over Kuchar's cap in the video above) of his head moving toward the target slightly. This is accompanied (maybe enabled) by the subtle lower body action that Chamblee points out...a softening of the knees in reaction to the backswing. It helps insure weight and low point of the arc stays left - in front of the ball regardless of the amount the face is opened / bounce exposed.

Thanks.  I will focus a little more on the knee action, but isn't one of the advantages of this shot that you can hit behind the ball (within a half-inch) and still come out okay (i.e., not a skull)?  I wouldn't think that even if the low point is behind the ball--unless it's way behind--that it should result in a skull.  Thoughts?

[natureboy]

Thanks.  I will focus a little more on the knee action, but isn't one of the advantages of this shot that you can hit behind the ball (within a half-inch) and still come out okay (i.e., not a skull)?  I wouldn't think that even if the low point is behind the ball--unless it's way behind--that it should result in a skull.  Thoughts?

The margin for error hitting behind the ball is supposed to be protection to get away with an acceptable shot on your worst swings. I don't think an intentional low point behind the ball is the intent, especially for tight lies.

If the low point is 'way behind' the ball you will likely get lots of fats and sculls.

[TheMadness]

You know your technique better, but it's possible that your low point in brushing was actually behind the ball or moving away from the target on b/s or d/s.

For solid pitch / chip technique Brad Faxon talks about a 'feel' (which seems to be real if you put your cursor over Kuchar's cap in the video above) of his head moving toward the target slightly. This is accompanied (maybe enabled) by the subtle lower body action that Chamblee points out...a softening of the knees in reaction to the backswing. It helps insure weight and low point of the arc stays left - in front of the ball regardless of the amount the face is opened / bounce exposed.

Do you really want the low point of the arc to be left of the ball?  I know you do on a chip, but aren't you inviting the leading edge to hit the ball if you bottom out ahead of the ball on a pitch?  I must say, I am still struggling to hit this shot consistently unless I lean the shaft just a fraction toward from the target.  But then I think that I'm really just hitting a modified chip shot with just a little less digging because the bounce is more engaged.  When I put the shaft in neutral or leaning away from the target, the only time I hit this shot well is when I brush the ground 4-5 times before I hit the ball so that I'm confident that the low point of my arc is just behind the ball (or at least that's how it feels).

[natureboy]

Do you really want the low point of the arc to be left of the ball?  I know you do on a chip, but aren't you inviting the leading edge to hit the ball if you bottom out ahead of the ball on a pitch?  I must say, I am still struggling to hit this shot consistently unless I lean the shaft just a fraction toward from the target.  But then I think that I'm really just hitting a modified chip shot with just a little less digging because the bounce is more engaged.  When I put the shaft in neutral or leaning away from the target, the only time I hit this shot well is when I brush the ground 4-5 times before I hit the ball so that I'm confident that the low point of my arc is just behind the ball (or at least that's how it feels).

Personally, I am steeper with a pitch than with a chip due to adding the wrist hinge. For a pitch that's intended to go high I think steep with a lot of early club release to return the true loft (or add some) and a low point just slightly forward of the ball is good. For a lower flighted pitch I do swing shallower with less release to punch through the ball more with a de-lofted face. I still try to put the low point of that shallower arc in front of the ball. I don't think sweep shape like I would with driver or fairway woods.

But if you are doing pitches with hands behind the ball (& maybe low) rather than even with the ball to add loft at address, then more of a sweep feel with low point right under the ball may help.  I think this is an advanced shot akin to Seve's 'floater' and that does involve more weight on your right leg. I consider this an advanced shot, not a stock pitch, and very dangerous on tight lies. I think the pitch technique described in this thread is a very good stock shot useful in a lot of situations & lies.

Defer to the forum experts on this, though.

[mvmac]

I have been working on this shot and variants thereof this offseason.  I first started working on it after watching Paul Azinger's Golf Chanel Academy special.  He approaches it from a slightly different vantage point:  weight on the back foot, shallow angle of attack, and a decel finish.  But he is a big proponent of engaging the bounce and making sure the shaft is in a neutral position.

I think the weight on the back foot is more of a feel thing. Azinger's feet are close together so you can't have much bias on one side or the other. Looks fairly even and more forward after impact.

I can't recall right now, but I think Azinger plays the ball in the middle, which may explain why he is more comfortable with his weight in the back, which promotes a shallower swing.

You can still be shallow with the weight forward. Amateurs that have the weight back tend to try and "lift" the ball in the air.

But if you are doing pitches with hands behind the ball (& maybe low) rather than even with the ball to add loft at address, then more of a sweep feel with low point right under the ball may help.  I think this is an advanced shot akin to Seve's 'floater' and that does involve more weight on your right leg.

Yes it is a specialty shot, a super high lob. Mac teaches it the way Seve taught him. Wider stance with the weight back and then shift everything forward on the downswing as you flip the hell out of it.

[TheMadness]

I think the weight on the back foot is more of a feel thing. Azinger's feet are close together so you can't have much bias on one side or the other. Looks fairly even and more forward after impact.

You can still be shallow with the weight forward. Amateurs that have the weight back tend to try and "lift" the ball in the air.

Yes it is a specialty shot, a super high lob. Mac teaches it the way Seve taught him. Wider stance with the weight back and then shift everything forward on the downswing as you flip the hell out of it.

Mike, how do you view a normal pitch shot?  Is the low point after the ball or just before the ball where you are thudding the ground and catching the ball (slightly) on the upswing?  Part of my problem is that I don't know what I should be trying to do with this shot--am I trying to hit the ball first (without the leading edge), or am I trying to hit the ground first and letting the club sort of bounce into the ball with the face hitting the club on the upswing?  I only hit this shot well when I take 4-5 practice shots in succession and build my trust on the low point of the swing and then repeat the motion when I line up to hit the ball.  And even when I do, it feels kind of "flippy," where I'm releasing the club right after it thuds the ground.  Is that the proper feel for the bounce pitch shot?

[mvmac]

Mike, how do you view a normal pitch shot?  Is the low point after the ball or just before the ball where you are thudding the ground and catching the ball (slightly) on the upswing?  Part of my problem is that I don't know what I should be trying to do with this shot--am I trying to hit the ball first (without the leading edge), or am I trying to hit the ground first and letting the club sort of bounce into the ball with the face hitting the club on the upswing?

Low point is still after the ball but there is room for error if it's not "perfect". Should not be trying to hit it on the upswing.

I wouldn't worry too much about hitting the ball vs hitting the ground, just pivot back and through, brush the grass and let the ball get in the way.

I only hit this shot well when I take 4-5 practice shots in succession and build my trust on the low point of the swing and then repeat the motion when I line up to hit the ball.

I do something similar, I take 3 or 4 practice swings where decide how far back I want to take it (how far I want to hit it) and I brush the grass. Then I try my best to repeat that feel over the ball.

And even when I do, it feels kind of "flippy," where I'm releasing the club right after it thuds the ground.  Is that the proper feel for the bounce pitch shot?

I'm a little hesitant to verify whether a feel is right for you without seeing the swing but yes a good pitching motion will feel a little flippy.

Also I want to point out that the club isn't actually bouncing, we're not fans of that term, we prefer glide. Bounce helps the club glide through the turf.