I'm Done Teaching Stack and Tilt (Never Taught it Anyway)

[iacas]

Aaron Baddeley's rise to #73 in the world rankings has opened my eyes.

I'm going to teach students a centered shoulder turn and a one-plane swing from here on out, with wiggle room to allow for a variety of body types, shot shaping preferences, natural ability, and more in such a way that my students will make crisp contact, hit the ball far, and control the ball flight.

I'm going to do this using science, geometry, and physics, and it's going to be conveyed to my students through personalized feels tailor-made to their particular swing, with a prioritized list of things to work on in order for them to get better immediately.

I'm done. I'm out. It's all over. One-plane centered pivot, here I come.

[Zeph]

Crap. Should we find some new ball flight laws while we're at it?

[1par2win]

Originally Posted by iacas

Aaron Baddeley's rise to #73 in the world rankings has opened my eyes.

I'm going to teach students a centered shoulder turn and a one-plane swing from here on out, with wiggle room to allow for a variety of body types, shot shaping preferences, natural ability, and more in such a way that my students will make crisp contact, hit the ball far, and control the ball flight.

I'm going to do this using science, geometry, and physics, and it's going to be conveyed to my students through personalized feels tailor-made to their particular swing, with a prioritized list of things to work on in order for them to get better immediately.

I'm done. I'm out. It's all over. One-plane centered pivot, here I come.

One plane pivot. Down with OPP?? Yea you know me...

I know I left out "centered" but that would ruin my already weak joke.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Sssshhhh...

<_<

>_>

>_<

(it's most definitely not S&T;!)

[mvmac]

Might be a good idea to use swings of pros from different generations to relate important/similar pieces that all good players share.  Good for you Erik, that S&T; stuff is too technical.

[glock35ipsc]

I'm only posting this because after reading your post, I went to the S&T; web site just to see what they had to say about their current/former students, if anything.  It does seem as though his rankings got better using S&T; (if their chart is correct), then dropped off after leaving them.  Although, one can't argue with this weekends results!  Anywho, here's what they said about Baddeley:

Aaron Baddeley
Aaron met Mike and Andy through the recommendation of Steve Elkington and Tommy Armour at the end of the 2005 season. He won his first tournament in 2006. In 2007 he won again and later that fall he won for a third time the Australian Masters for three wins in two years. During this time his world ranking went from 170th to 17th, including 7 top 10s on his way to finishing 6th on the FedEx Cup in 2007. He made 7 million dollars with 12 top 10s and 27 top 25 finishes in this period. He has not worked with Mike and Andy since Mar 12, 2009. His world ranking on that date was 34.

[ControlJunkie]

You sure you shouldn't be teaching people to pick the ball instead of compressing it? I mean, that's the only way to get the ball in the air properly, right?

By the way, I hit my new TM Burner 7 iron 316 yards yesterday!!

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Might be a good idea to use swings of pros from different generations to relate important/similar pieces that all good players share.  Good for you Erik, that S&T; stuff is too technical.

[596]

I'm not saying you are right or wrong and that not using ST didn't have the reported impact on his ranking.  But the guy is a pro.....sees the same statistics in ref. to ranking that we see as well as a drop in $$ earnings and can't seem to bring himself to see his drop and when it all went bad?  I'm betting he knows something we don't about his slide down the chart.  If the slide was that easy to identify, not using those S&T; instructors, then I'm betting he'd be back with it right away.  Something else is going on and we'll never know.  These guys are not as dumb as it appears on paper : )

[TourSpoon]

The scene from the Blues Brothers where John Belushi is in the church and "sees the light" comes to mind.

I am so glad you have come to your senses.  Who would have thought that such a cataclyzmic event such as the LA Open could have such an effect on the world of golf as we know it.  With your announcement I see human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, and mass hysteria all over the world.  No wonder the Middle East is off the heezie.

[Kujan]

Eric's thread is a joke. Do you get it?

[Stretch]

How dare you call Erik a joke, sirrah? I like to think of him as more of a bon mot.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by glock35ipsc

I'm only posting this because after reading your post, I went to the S&T; web site just to see what they had to say about their current/former students, if anything.  It does seem as though his rankings got better using S&T; (if their chart is correct), then dropped off after leaving them.

I've tried to coincide the below with the points on the graph. All data taken from officialworldgolfranking.com.

Week 01 Ranking - Sunday, January 2, 2005 - Ranked #NOT FOUND (assumed >200)
(http://dps.endavadigital.net/owgr/doc/content/archive/2005/owgr01f2005.pdf)

Week 01 Ranking - Sunday, January 8, 2006 - Ranked #168
(http://dps.endavadigital.net/owgr/doc/content/archive/2006/owgr01f2006.pdf)

Week 01 Ranking - Sunday, January 7, 2007 - Ranked #89
(http://dps.endavadigital.net/owgr/doc/content/archive/2007/owgr01f2007.pdf)

Week 01 Ranking - Sunday, January 6, 2008 - Ranked #17
(http://dps.endavadigital.net/owgr/doc/content/archive/2008/owgr01f2008.pdf)

Week 26 Ranking - Sunday, June 29, 2008 - Ranked #22
(http://dps.endavadigital.net/owgr/doc/content/archive/2008/owgr26f2008.pdf)

Week 01 Ranking - Sunday, January 4, 2009 - Ranked #37
(http://dps.endavadigital.net/owgr/doc/content/archive/2009/owgr01f2009.pdf)

Week 01 Ranking - Sunday, January 3, 2010 - Ranked #140
(http://dps.endavadigital.net/owgr/doc/content/archive/2010/owgr01f2010.pdf)

Week 01 Ranking - Sunday, January 2, 2011 - Ranked #278
http://dps.endavadigital.net/owgr/doc/content/archive/2011/owgr01f2011.pdf

Doesn't look that accurate in terms of numbers but in terms of dates he definitely improved dramatically working with them (>200 to 168 to 89 to 17), then dwindled a bit (to 22) and left. :(

[596]

Nope : )

I don't follow all this S&T; stuff, hips turns, rotate here and there, hands there and here, but not high and use this swing plane not this one, only one plane, no 2, loop here and this way....spine tilt at this angle, one shoulder higher then the other, but not there!!  OH, and don't forget the weight shift at this precise moment, but which way? Wow....way too much sh*t to think about and analyze.  I swing simple and be done with it AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THAT IS IF YOU ASK : )

I've never used much advice as far as how to swing other then a very general, this is the basics, done.  I've only ever read one article, post, on the S&T; and got a tad confused, tried it for about one week.....and went back to "my" swing.

So, no....I didn't get it : )

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Stretch

How dare you call Erik a joke, sirrah? I like to think of him as more of a bon mot.

I'd rather be a bon bon .

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by iacas

Aaron Baddeley's rise to #73 in the world rankings has opened my eyes.

I'm going to teach students a centered shoulder turn and a one-plane swing from here on out, with wiggle room to allow for a variety of body types, shot shaping preferences, natural ability, and more in such a way that my students will make crisp contact, hit the ball far, and control the ball flight.

I'm going to do this using science, geometry, and physics, and it's going to be conveyed to my students through personalized feels tailor-made to their particular swing, with a prioritized list of things to work on in order for them to get better immediately.

I'm done. I'm out. It's all over. One-plane centered pivot, here I come.

Well, it's about time! Good grief, Stack and Tilt is all we hear about on this forum anymore.

Don't forget mathematics, because accelerating the clubhead into the ball is a calculus problem.

[Clambake]

I don't really care one way or the other about S&T;, believing that everyone has a different body shape, flexibility, tempo, etc and that finding the best swing for you is the key, not what is the best swing.     I do think that B&P; have done a good job as marketeers of their teaching methods.   Think of how hard it would be as a teacher to figure out a different way to package the golf swing teachings into something unique and new and then get that out into the international golf community with lots of publicity.    That's marketing genius.

But I do have a problem with the bogus use of stats such as their chart below.      Their hypothesis is that the S&T; is the reason for Baddeley's world ranking, but it so completely ignores all other factors that it makes drawing such a conclusion completely useless.      For example, Baddeley's PGA Tour rankings in Scrambling have him improving from #51 in '06 up to 25th, then dropping back down to 117th in 2010; this basically follows the same curve.    With a stroke here or there being the difference being contending and fighting for one's tour card, wouldn't a better argument be that Baddeley's world rankings are driven by his scrambling improvements and problems rather than S&T;?      But I also realize that a causal relationship cannot be determined from that either, so I wouldn't actually try to make that case.    For example, he's gotten married and had a couple kids in this time frame - perhaps that could have had an impact.   Or about a million other things as well.

My point is that what B&P; are claiming with their supposed use of statistics is bad science.   Good marketing perhaps, but bogus nonetheless.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Clambake

But I do have a problem with the bogus use of stats such as their chart below. Their hypothesis is that the S&T; is the reason for Baddeley's world ranking, but it so completely ignores all other factors that it makes drawing such a conclusion completely useless.

At the risk of veering into the realm of the serious for a moment (please, let's get out of that zone quickly!), it's not "bogus" at all. The chart is accurate and shows the world rankings of various players. If you want to read data into that, that's up to you... but they simply used data available to them.

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

Don't forget mathematics, because accelerating the clubhead into the ball is a calculus problem.

And astrology! And myelin! Neuroplasticity! :-)