Should Top Players Play the PGA Tour instead of the Euro Tour?

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by franky21

Well the bottom line is that players that can't get a exemption for a pga tour event then turn to the euro tour. I am telling you facts everything you are saying is just your personal opinion which i respect but don't agree with. I don't see the need to have to break down the euro tour to get your approval on my outlook of the euro tour. Can you at least tell me why players that can't get on to a event on the pga tour will then go with there second choice which is the euro tour. By the way are you from england because you really love the euro tour and really think it is just as competitive as the pga tour which is just crazy. Anyone that can really say that the competition level is equal on both tours is just crazy and really doesn't watch golf. Cheers mate!!!!!!l LOL

Why do you persist?.....you're truly an idiot.

You can't even use correct grammar, no one is going to take you seriously. You ramble on and on, with no evidence, no facts, and repeat yourself.

GIVE UP.

You're wrong.

[Leftygolfer]

I haven't read any responses but I believe the two tours should co-sanction 4-8 events a year.  I understand them not wanting to play here.  That is there home.  They make a great living there and play against quality fields.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Leftygolfer

I haven't read any responses but I believe the two tours should co-sanction 4-8 events a year.  I understand them not wanting to play here.  That is there home.  They make a great living there and play against quality fields.

Unless I'm mistaken, the four majors and the four WGC events are "recognized" by both tours.  That is, the earnings count toward both the PGA Tour official money list and the European Tour Order of Merit.

[B-Con]

I haven't read any responses but I believe the two tours should co-sanction 4-8 events a year.  I understand them not wanting to play here.  That is there home.  They make a great living there and play against quality fields.

Wouldn't that be the 4 WGC championships? (Including the Japan tour and others as well.) [edit] Harmonious beat me to it.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Unless I'm mistaken, the four majors and the four WGC events are "recognized" by both tours.  That is, the earnings count toward both the PGA Tour official money list and the European Tour Order of Merit.

I think the OP is referring to The Player's Championship which several Euros have determined doesn't fit into their schedule. If it's truly "the players' championship" it should move around. Why not Italy, Australia,  or South Africa for a change instead of that contrived TPC course?

[franky21]

Originally Posted by deasy55

Franky21 is clueless about world golf. No offense

I suppose 3 of the last 4 major champions and Rory are playing in Malaysia this week because they didn't get into the Valero Texas Open

I am done trying to explain myself you obviously haven't read what i have been writing. But i think we will not agree on the pga and euro tour. But if some of you guys think the euro tour is just as competitive as the pga ok. Deasey55 you didn't read what i have been writing i said exclude the rory's and top players cause they don't need exemptions because of there high ranks but it's ok. Well we won't be agreeing on this topic which is fine. That's what this site is about to get everyone's opinions on certain topics. Have a good one and hit them straight.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I think the OP is referring to The Player's Championship which several Euros have determined doesn't fit into their schedule. If it's truly "the players' championship" it should move around. Why not Italy, Australia,  or South Africa for a change instead of that contrived TPC course?

The renamed Players Championship will always be at Sawgrass because it is run by the Tour at their home course.  You probably remember when it was called the TPC (Tournament Players Championship). Deane Beman really wanted another tournament to challenge the four majors in quality and prestige, thus the Fifth Major idea, and where the Tour could totally control the event, and reap all the monetary benefits, unlike the other majors, which are controlled by other organizations (Augusta National, USGA, R&A;, PGA of America).

In theory, the WGC events were supposed to be held at more world-wide venues, but many US pros refused to travel to, say, Australia, for just one event. Seems the tide has turned a bit.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by franky21

I am done trying to explain myself you obviously haven't read what i have been writing. But i think we will not agree on the pga and euro tour. But if some of you guys think the euro tour is just as competitive as the pga ok. Deasey55 you didn't read what i have been writing i said exclude the rory's and top players cause they don't need exemptions because of there high ranks but it's ok. Well we won't be agreeing on this topic which is fine. That's what this site is about to get everyone's opinions on certain topics. Have a good one and hit them straight.

It can be hard to follow your train(s) of thought with all your run-on sentences, but I don't necessarily disagree with you about everything.  Once you get past the top 50 or so players on each tour (where Europe has an edge right now), I would agree that the US Tour is probably stronger and/or deeper.  I have absolutely no way to quantify this, just a gut feeling.  But I probably couldn't identify many of the Euros from #50-100 on the Order of Merit. For all I know, they may be better than the US #50-100 that I have heard of.  Since they rarely play at each other's tournaments or in the Ryder Cups, there's no way to know, except to use the World Golf Rankings, dubious at best.

However, if the European tour was so inferior, then it should hold that the British Open would be filled with US players in the top ten every year, since the US Tour is so "deep".  But that is clearly not the case.  In fact, over the past five years, the percentage of US players that finished in the top ten was only about 25-30% during that time. In fact, not since 2000 have more than 50% of the top ten finishers been US.

Each tour has great players. Some play here most of the time, some play there most the time.  They all get together 8 times a year.  What more could you want?

[franky21]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

It can be hard to follow your train(s) of thought with all your run-on sentences, but I don't necessarily disagree with you about everything.  Once you get past the top 50 or so players on each tour (where Europe has an edge right now), I would agree that the US Tour is probably stronger and/or deeper.  I have absolutely no way to quantify this, just a gut feeling.  But I probably couldn't identify many of the Euros from #50-100 on the Order of Merit. For all I know, they may be better than the US #50-100 that I have heard of.  Since they rarely play at each other's tournaments or in the Ryder Cups, there's no way to know, except to use the World Golf Rankings, dubious at best.

However, if the European tour was so inferior, then it should hold that the British Open would be filled with US players in the top ten every year, since the US Tour is so "deep".  But that is clearly not the case.  In fact, over the past five years, the percentage of US players that finished in the top ten was only about 25-30% during that time. In fact, not since 2000 have more than 50% of the top ten finishers been US.

Each tour has great players. Some play here most of the time, some play there most the time.  They all get together 8 times a year.  What more could you want?

I am not going to get into the commas thing when i type so i will let that one fly over my head. Getting back on the topic i really like the stats that you just put up. I know alot about golf and sports in general but didn't know about the percentages that you just presented to us. I just know how the world rankings are full of euros up top and would love to see them more on tour. As a fan of golf you rally can't blame me for having that desire. I just want to see those real good pairings on the weekday more then 5 times a year. Rory paired with Fowler or Tiger with Kaymer. It really makes people watch it more and i think it will help the ratings. The euro players do have families and they just can't leave them behind just to satisfy us. As a husband and father i respect that but as a fan i hate it.

[sean_miller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by franky21

I am not going to get into the commas thing when i type so i will let that one fly over my head. Getting back on the topic i really like the stats that you just put up. I know alot about golf and sports in general but didn't know about the percentages that you just presented to us. I just know how the world rankings are full of euros up top and would love to see them more on tour. As a fan of golf you rally can't blame me for having that desire. I just want to see those real good pairings on the weekday more then 5 times a year. Rory paired with Fowler or Tiger with Kaymer. It really makes people watch it more and i think it will help the ratings. The euro players do have families and they just can't leave them behind just to satisfy us. As a husband and father i respect that but as a fan i hate it.

[Ernest Jones]

Sure glad I'm not Franky21. He's seems to take a pounding everytime he posts! Kudos to him for gutting it out though, keep swinging! It's like watching Kevin Na in the forest! "even the deer don't come in here!"

[franky21]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Sure glad I'm not Franky21. He's seems to take a pounding everytime he posts! Kudos to him for gutting it out though, keep swinging! It's like watching Kevin Na in the forest! "even the deer don't come in here!"

I love that Kevin Na joke.lol. I would of picked up on 9 strokes and kept it moving. It's alright i don't take these dudes seriously because i believe what i believe. I got attacked on a thread i put up a while ago about Tiger being the best and i was ok with it. Now i am getting ambushed for saying that the best players should be on the best tour. It is fun and i love debating different topics with other golf fans. That being said my mind is set on what i believe but i respect the opinions of others. Well time to go play 18.

[shades9323]

Originally Posted by franky21

Well the bottom line is that players that can't get a exemption for a pga tour event then turn to the euro tour. I am telling you facts everything you are saying is just your personal opinion which i respect but don't agree with. I don't see the need to have to break down the euro tour to get your approval on my outlook of the euro tour. Can you at least tell me why players that can't get on to a event on the pga tour will then go with there second choice which is the euro tour. By the way are you from england because you really love the euro tour and really think it is just as competitive as the pga tour which is just crazy. Anyone that can really say that the competition level is equal on both tours is just crazy and really doesn't watch golf. Cheers mate!!!!!!l LOL

What facts?  You have provided no evidence to support your "facts".  You have made the claims, the onus is on you to provide the proof.  Can you back up your claim that the Euro tour players can't get sponsors exemptions to pga tour events so they head to the Euro tour?  Wouldn't that mean there would be all kinds of Americans flooding the Euro tour?

Do you even know how sponsors exemptions work?  Did you know that there are only 8 exemptions available each tournament?  Two of those are for PGA tour members not in the tournament.  Two more are reserved for top 25 grads of Q school.  That leaves only 4 exemptions for everybody else.

[Deryck Griffith]

Historically, many top European Players stayed in Europe and played occasioanlly on the PGA tour.  There is nothing wrong with that.  We'll see the top European players 10-11 times this year which is sufficent and conversely, I enjoy watching them in other interesting places around the world that I have visited or hope to visit one day.  There is more to the game of golf then what's within the walls of the USA and the European tour brings that to anyone who is a TRUE golf fan.

[McIlroy_man]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I do find it interesting that while Luke Donald has been playing fairly well this year in addition to the win in the Accenture, he is ranked higher in the race for Dubai than he is in the Fed-Ex even though most of his play has been on the PGA Tour.  It would appear that points are assigned very differently in the two tours.  He is one of my favorite players, and I'd like to see him do well on either or both sides of the pond.

The reason he is higher in the Race to Dubai is that the list is based on earnings for the season whereas the Fed-Ex cup is a points based system. He earned a significant amount of money for winning the wgc, more than for winning most other tournaments but the Fed-Ex cup points might not have been much more than a normal tournamant win

[noefi13b]

As others have said players can play where they like for there own reasons, yes it would be nice for every tournament to have the best of the best but its never going to happen for many reasons...

What I have trouble with is your assertion that the PGA is "harder/better" than the euro tour... AND that the players there are getting a free ride and more ranking points for playing there.....

I will admit that I watch more Euro tour than PGA (in Australia its normally in a better time slot) but from what I see they are both about the same... Sure you get some dodgy fields in the Euro tour but then again the PGA has its fair share too.

My main question is what makes the PGA tour "better/harder" than the Euro tour?

Secondly IF your belief is correct and the tours are not level why is there not a bunch of Americans playing on the "easier" tour, amassing a bunch of ranking points to get auto entry into the big tournaments?

[ghalfaire]

I did not read all the responses but I believe since they do this for a living they should play where ever they feel they can receive the most compensation for their efforts.  Hate to sound mercenary but what you do to make a living is about compensation (not necessarily just money).

[Acropo]

Originally Posted by franky21

I am done trying to explain myself you obviously haven't read what i have been writing. But i think we will not agree on the pga and euro tour. But if some of you guys think the euro tour is just as competitive as the pga ok. Deasey55 you didn't read what i have been writing i said exclude the rory's and top players cause they don't need exemptions because of there high ranks but it's ok. Well we won't be agreeing on this topic which is fine. That's what this site is about to get everyone's opinions on certain topics. Have a good one and hit them straight.

The problem is, Franky, we HAVE actually read what you have been writing. For example, you said you wanted someone to explain the ranking points to you.

Why not do what the rest of us have done and look at the World Rankings website, which explains everything? Find it at www.owgr.com.

It will explain, for example, that the Majors get the most ranking points, followed by the TPC, followed by the four WGCs (five next year - or is it 2013?), and then events ranked according to, among other things but primarily, the rankings of the participants. During the Mid-East swing on the European Tour, tournament ranking points are higher than on the PGA Tour. Why?

Because the fields are better. Have a look at them - take the time and look at the entries side by side - and you will see that the fields had more of the world's Top 50/100.

Lee Westwood winning last weekend's Indonesian Masters got 20 ranking points - equivalent to a Nationwide event so by no means unfairly skewed, It represented the quality of the field. That 20, divided by the number of tournaments he has played in the last 24 months, gave him less than 0.5 to his average. Mind you, it wasn't on the European Tour anyway. It was a contractural obligation appearance, I think.

You say "...it is easier for the Kaymer's and  Donald's to place well..." I don't know how many times you have to be told before you grasp it but Donald has been a full-time PGA Tour player for most of his career. Yes, he is also a member of the European Tour and he has to play 13 events on it to retain his card. 8 of those events are Majors/WGCs. Add three of four of the Mid-East swing and the BMW PGA Championship and he needs just one more. He has a heck of a lot to pick from: China Open, South African Open, French Open, German Open, Spanish Open, Irish Open, Scottish Open...all of which attract class fields. Heck, even Phil Mickelson likes to play the Scottish Open.

And 'placing well' is not the same as 'picking up a lot of ranking points' - see the points awarded for Lee Westwood's win this weekend and compare it to the points Luke got for coming second in The Heritage.

You say " The european tour by far is weaker in depth..."

The reality is, it really depends on which tournament you're talking about, what week and compared with what. Honourable events though they are but the Reno-Tahoe Open and the John Deere Classic, for example, no longer attract world-class fields. (Nor does the Byron Nelson Classic and that is something I, personally, regret. It used to be a great tournament that honoured an outstanding golfer - it is now only one of those two, because the US-based players can't be bothered any more. Not even the American US-based players). You cannot pretend that the PGA Tour events, week in and week out, always attract world-class fields; they don't.

If you want outstanding, world-class fields, week after week, then you are arguing for a World Tour. Fine - but history demonstrates that American players won't travel outside the USA. These days, that's OK, because there are more than enough world-class players from Europe, India, Asia, S Africa, S America and Australia to compensate. As the World Rankings demonstrate.

Take time to find out a bit more and broaden your horizons and then your opinions will come under the heading of 'informed' and you won't find yourself being slagged off so much. Opinions like " I just personally think the european tour is the jv league golf." just attract contempt and opprobrium - and unavoidably so, I'm afraid, because informed is something they are not.