AimPoint Green Reading

[saevel25]

4 hours ago, vangator said:

I've thought about taking an Aimpoint class.  The problem is, I think the greens I play are unreadable.

Not with your feet they are not ;) 
 

[SavvySwede]

On 8/5/2015 at 10:55 AM, jbishop15 said:

No, no tools. It's really not hard at all. It took the most minimal bit of practice and I had it down. It's really helped a lot.

I like practicing with a digital level. The difference between percentage points can get fuzzy at times, especially after not playing for a few days. Always nice to get a refresher.

[No Mulligans]

I don't know AimPoint but do intend on taking a class when and if there is one available in my neck of the woods.

Even still, I've taken to feeling the greens with my feet and using my fingers.  For example, if I feel a slight break I think "that's a bit less than a 1 finger break".  The way that can work regardless of the length of the putt is really helpful.  Just doing that much has helped my green reading.

[minitour]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

Not with your feet they are not ;) 
 

Agree with this.  Amazing how quickly you can get "good" at it.  Or at least "acceptable".

[vangator]

 

7 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Unless they are perfectly flat, they're readable. And then they are easy.

They are anything but flat.  I can read real obvious breaks.  Usually not the correct amount of break though.  It's those subtle breaks that I may even read the wrong way.

4 hours ago, iacas said:

Why? Because that makes no sense… they still obey the laws of physics.

I think I remember you saying that 99.9% of all grain is downhill.  And that makes some sense, but not at this course.  I brought a level one time to the course and found several spots that had grain breaking uphill.  I read greens better at courses other than the one I typically play.  I think it's a parallel dimension where the laws of physics don't apply.

2 hours ago, billchao said:

You probably only think they are because you haven't been reading them the right way 

That's for sure.  I've tried to read with my feet and just don't feel anything.  I've tried to see if one arm hangs lower (out from body on side hills) and just can't see any on balls that still break.  I've had some success with plumb bobbing.

I do read the break much better on my come back putts when I run them by the hole a few feet.   I'm also a good putter when playing in scrambles where I don't putt first. 

I checked to see if I may be cutting the ball or something.  I line up the ball on the intended line and it rolls right along the mark.  I'm very good at making putts after I've missed the first one and throw down a second ball.

My putting has gotten so frustrating that I haven't had a birdie the last 2 rounds with double digits GIR for both rounds.  Lots of burned edges.  It's not the yips since I hit them right where I'm aiming with good speed.  The only putts I've read correctly I've left short in the jaws.

I'm going to switch to a different putter (an old one I found in the garage).

How's that for a "woe is me" post?

Edited December 16, 2015 by vangator

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, vangator said:

I remember you saying that 99.9% of all grain is downhill.  And that makes some sense, but not at this course.  I brought a level one time to the course and found several spots that had grain breaking uphill.  I read greens better at courses other than the one I typically play.  I think it's a parallel dimension where the laws of physics don't apply.

Grain doesn't matter all that much.

I've seen a few greens with uphill grain, but… not very many. It often takes years and years of mowing in the same direction to "flip the grain."

3 minutes ago, vangator said:

I've had some success with plumb bobbing.

Plumb bobbing makes no sense at all.

The only thing it could possibly do is provide a visual representation of vertical, if that helps… but those who say it shows you which way it breaks by how the ball appears on one side or the other don't understand the simple geometry of a LINE.

[vangator]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Grain doesn't matter all that much.

I've seen a few greens with uphill grain, but… not very many. It often takes years and years of mowing in the same direction to "flip the grain."

Plumb bobbing makes no sense at all.

The only thing it could possibly do is provide a visual representation of vertical, if that helps… but those who say it shows you which way it breaks by how the ball appears on one side or the other don't understand the simple geometry of a LINE.

The grain in the greens I play is massive.  The line absolutely needs to be adjusted due to grain.  The greens in the north, as I recall, don't have much if any real grain.

I never used to think plumb bobbing did anything but make someone look stupid, but I had a guy show me how to do it and it definitely seemed to help.  But I will agree that it really applies to the slope where you're standing, so it will help mainly on lines that have a consistent slope from your feet to the hole.

But I'm the last person to give advice on anything to do with putting.

[iacas]

Just now, vangator said:

The grain in the greens I play is massive.  The line absolutely needs to be adjusted due to grain.  The greens in the north, as I recall, don't have much if any real grain.

Grain doesn't contribute nearly as much as you seem to think it does. On the grainiest greens Mark Sweeney could find, they accounted for about 1-2 inches over 20 feet. That's not a lot. It's still tighter margins than your ability to hit the putt on-line.

Mark knows, too, as his computer model that handled the AimPoint line on TV for years was accurate to within about an inch, and it was in use at nearly every tournament including the über-grainy greens in Hawaii.

Just now, vangator said:

I never used to think plumb bobbing did anything but make someone look stupid, but I had a guy show me how to do it and it definitely seemed to help. But I will agree that it really applies to the slope where you're standing, so it will help mainly on lines that have a consistent slope from your feet to the hole.

It doesn't really do that, either. The only thing it can possibly do is provide a reference for vertical (if you hold the putter shaft so that it hangs vertically, that is). Nothing more.

[boogielicious]

18 minutes ago, vangator said:

The grain in the greens I play is massive.  The line absolutely needs to be adjusted due to grain.  The greens in the north, as I recall, don't have much if any real grain.

I never used to think plumb bobbing did anything but make someone look stupid, but I had a guy show me how to do it and it definitely seemed to help.  But I will agree that it really applies to the slope where you're standing, so it will help mainly on lines that have a consistent slope from your feet to the hole.

But I'm the last person to give advice on anything to do with putting.

AimPoint is based on data. Mark Sweeney did a massive amount of testing to create the system. You will be surprised at how accurate the system is once you take the course. You will also be pleased to learn how easy it is to do and it is not very obvious to your playing partners like plumb bobbing.

I played with an instructor down in Florida last winter with a buddy of mine. He was very impressed with my putting and reads. He never noticed I was doing AimPoint because I did my reads so quickly.

Take a class. You will not regret it.

[klund]

On 8/31/2015 at 6:57 AM, iacas said:

You'd be surprised at how few places you need to measure to pretty accurately read everything.

Surprise me!

I took to Aimpoint classes but no information regarding this.

[dkolo]

4 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

I like practicing with a digital level. The difference between percentage points can get fuzzy at times, especially after not playing for a few days. Always nice to get a refresher.

It's really amazing how fast you can pick it up with immediate feedback from a level. I use an app called Breakmeter on my iPhone that was recommended on here a while ago, and about which I was very skeptical. It gives degrees instead of percentages, but it's the same idea, being able to quantify how much break there is before putting. During periods of constant practice, I could guess it to within a few tenths of a degree. At the very least though, using a level or similar tool to learn how to feel breaks generally with my feet was a huge help for my putting game.

[jkelley9]

I would like to take an aimpoint midpoint (1st, or introductory) class, but there seems to be nothing going on in the north carolina area any time soon. Who can I contact to be informed if there's enough people to do a clinic? I certainly would not want to miss it.

Thanks!

[minitour]

On 12/16/2015 at 7:36 PM, iacas said:

Plumb bobbing makes no sense at all.

The only thing it could possibly do is provide a visual representation of vertical, if that helps… but those who say it shows you which way it breaks by how the ball appears on one side or the other don't understand the simple geometry of a LINE.

I remember when I was about 9 and someone tried explaining it to me.  Even then, I remember thinking, "this is some crazy witchcraft he's selling me, here."

Do you do "Express" lessons or just the regular AimPoint?  I'm getting much more comfortable with the basics and think it might be time to learn some more.

[saevel25]

18 minutes ago, minitour said:

Do you do "Express" lessons or just the regular AimPoint?  I'm getting much more comfortable with the basics and think it might be time to learn some more.

I do express almost 100% of the time now. It's just simple and it works really well on longer putts. 

[minitour]

Just now, saevel25 said:

I do express almost 100% of the time now. It's just simple and it works really well on longer putts. 

I had a feeling that was the case.  Honestly, it takes almost no time to figure out my read using the charts, but I was thinking Express may be even more convenient.  Need to get some more instruction on it to make sure I'm not picking up bad habits, and also to increase knowledge.

I yearn to learn.

[colin007]

Never taken a class, just use my feet to guesstimate the direction and severity of slope, I am hardly ever fooled by the direction. 

[jkelley9]

12 hours ago, colin007 said:

Never taken a class, just use my feet to guesstimate the direction and severity of slope, I am hardly ever fooled by the direction. 

So based on a few recent responses, including yours, do you think I should forego the aimpoint "class" and maybe just use the youtube quick videos on the aimpoint system to get a feel for it, and I can probably use a good chunk of the technique without attending a class? What about the "streaming" express class that's like ~$45? Do you think that set of video instruction would be helpful?

Thanks!

[Zesty]

I'm sure it would be against the rules like the elevation options on a rangefinder, but, I was thinking that it would be a great for practice if I had a belt that worked as a level and sent the readout to my golfwatch. Wherever I was standing a quick glance at my wrist would give the degree of slope. Has anyone seen a practice aid like this?