The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Lihu]

I agree but I think his original plan was to follow concepts similar to what was discussed in the Talent Code which called for breaking up the swing into parts which I believe led to him starting with putting, then chipping, pitching etc.  I've read other golf instructional books that also suggested that method as well so it's not completely unfounded.

I think there was an expectation that by the time he got to the full swing he'd have all the other pieces of the swing in place and he'd start to progress really quickly but that didn't happen.

Just curious, which books?

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

Who knows. I stick by what I said. If he was instructed by a pro who got the best out of his swing, practiced full swing, pitching/chipping and putting deliberately from the very beginning, I think he could have been a legit 0 to 5 in a lot less time than his original plan. Maybe 2 years? But after that I'd bet he'd hit a wall, plateau, whether he improves after that, wins an amateur tournament of repute, is anyone's guess.

I agree but I think his original plan was to follow concepts similar to what was discussed in the Talent Code which called for breaking up the swing into parts which I believe led to him starting with putting, then chipping, pitching etc.  I've read other golf instructional books that also suggested that method as well so it's not completely unfounded.

I think there was an expectation that by the time he got to the full swing he'd have all the other pieces of the swing in place and he'd start to progress really quickly but that didn't happen.

I agree, I've seen that train of thought before too. But golf isn't a piece of music you can pick apart. I think golf is like learning how to play the piano, violin and trumpet simultaneously. Full  swing, touch swing, putting, the art of negotiating a course/scoring. If you wanted to achieve your maximum ability in all three instruments in a given time, I'd think it would be better to learn each simultaneously starting from the beginning. On the other hand, if you start with the piano exclusively, then learn the violin and then the trumpet, by the time you get back to the piano, you can barely do chopsticks.

I just think the way of going about the beginning was too... egghead. It's easy to say this in hindsight, but at the beginning of the project, I was thinking the putting only thing was not a good idea and I knew about the ideas written about in the Talent Code. He could have done putting and half swings with speed and touch with wedges to 7 irons from the beginning.

[mchepp]

I agree but I think his original plan was to follow concepts similar to what was discussed in the Talent Code which called for breaking up the swing into parts which I believe led to him starting with putting, then chipping, pitching etc.  I've read other golf instructional books that also suggested that method as well so it's not completely unfounded.

I think there was an expectation that by the time he got to the full swing he'd have all the other pieces of the swing in place and he'd start to progress really quickly but that didn't happen.

The idea which he started with was that he should start at the hole and progressively move backwards. This idea was not Dan's. It was the pro who he first sought out for advice. Dan would later drop him and admit that the strategy of starting with putting one foot putts was a bad one. I don't think we should knock Dan for this. He knew nothing about golf walked up to a professional golfer and asked him the best way to improve. The pro said start from the hole and move back. I cannot blame him for listening to someone who should know this kind of thing. He would post months later after struggling in a tournament with his driver that the approach he took was wrong. He was nice about it and said something like maybe it didn't work blah, blah, but if he was being blunt he just would have said it didn't work and he shouldn't have done it.

If I were Dan I would just tell this guy that I already covered this, I started wrong, took the advice of someone who should know and it was a mistake. He has to move on now. He cannot change history.

I have been critical of Dan and his plan. But I give him a pass on this topic. I followed tons of really bad instruction throughout my career in golf. So I cannot fault him for this. Now he must find a filter so he can find where the good information is coming from and soak up as much as he can get from those people.

[garybbq]

Is there any stats or does anyone know how good a putter Dan actually is? Did putting for six months make a difference?

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I agree but I think his original plan was to follow concepts similar to what was discussed in the Talent Code which called for breaking up the swing into parts which I believe led to him starting with putting, then chipping, pitching etc.  I've read other golf instructional books that also suggested that method as well so it's not completely unfounded.

I think there was an expectation that by the time he got to the full swing he'd have all the other pieces of the swing in place and he'd start to progress really quickly but that didn't happen.

The idea which he started with was that he should start at the hole and progressively move backwards. This idea was not Dan's. It was the pro who he first sought out for advice. Dan would later drop him and admit that the strategy of starting with putting one foot putts was a bad one. I don't think we should knock Dan for this. He knew nothing about golf walked up to a professional golfer and asked him the best way to improve. The pro said start from the hole and move back. I cannot blame him for listening to someone who should know this kind of thing. He would post months later after struggling in a tournament with his driver that the approach he took was wrong. He was nice about it and said something like maybe it didn't work blah, blah, but if he was being blunt he just would have said it didn't work and he shouldn't have done it.

If I were Dan I would just tell this guy that I already covered this, I started wrong, took the advice of someone who should know and it was a mistake. He has to move on now. He cannot change history.

I have been critical of Dan and his plan. But I give him a pass on this topic. I followed tons of really bad instruction throughout my career in golf. So I cannot fault him for this. Now he must find a filter so he can find where the good information is coming from and soak up as much as he can get from those people.

I did not know this. I wonder if the professor had some influence on the decision. And since he was in the kind of public eye with his blog, he must have gotten many of e-mails and comments about that method - it should have raised flags. But I see your point and agree.

[mchepp]

I did not know this. I wonder if the professor had some influence on the decision. And since he was in the kind of public eye with his blog, he must have gotten many of e-mails and comments about that method - it should have raised flags. But I see your point and agree.

The comments on his blog are noise. They say everything from he is a crap human being to he is going to be walking stride for stride with Tiger. I would advise him to ignore most of the comments on his blog because you just never know who is commenting.

I could make an argument that he should have gone to 10-15 different professionals and ask all of them how they would teach a beginner from scratch. After interviewing as many people as he could, decide the best way forward. This might have made more sense than what he did.

[Lihu]

Is there any stats or does anyone know how good a putter Dan actually is? Did putting for six months make a difference?

http://thedanplan.com/statistics-2/

He's 7 strokes better than me at putting, so I can't argue that.

[plara31480]

This is a very cool story, unfortunately, I think his lack of sponsorship or funds along with lack of tournament play will ultimately be his downfall. Does anyone know where his current handicap is?

[newtogolf]

The idea which he started with was that he should start at the hole and progressively move backwards. This idea was not Dan's. It was the pro who he first sought out for advice. Dan would later drop him and admit that the strategy of starting with putting one foot putts was a bad one. I don't think we should knock Dan for this. He knew nothing about golf walked up to a professional golfer and asked him the best way to improve. The pro said start from the hole and move back. I cannot blame him for listening to someone who should know this kind of thing. He would post months later after struggling in a tournament with his driver that the approach he took was wrong. He was nice about it and said something like maybe it didn't work blah, blah, but if he was being blunt he just would have said it didn't work and he shouldn't have done it.

If I were Dan I would just tell this guy that I already covered this, I started wrong, took the advice of someone who should know and it was a mistake. He has to move on now. He cannot change history.

I have been critical of Dan and his plan. But I give him a pass on this topic. I followed tons of really bad instruction throughout my career in golf. So I cannot fault him for this. Now he must find a filter so he can find where the good information is coming from and soak up as much as he can get from those people.

I didn't know that, thank you for clarifying.  I thought the strategy was co-designed by Dan and his instructor based on the premise discussed in The Talent Code.

If it was just bad information from a poor instructor I can completely relate as I'm still trying to fix parts of my swing thanks to poor instruction.

[nevets88]

I think we can all agree from his and our collective experience that for all the theory and good intentions, how key good instruction and data are, how hard it is to filter out the noise and the cr@piness of instruction overall.

[garybbq]

http://thedanplan.com/statistics-2/

He's 7 strokes better than me at putting, so I can't argue that.

Interesting, so it seems that the putting did pay off some what and possibly the short game. However his full swing is still a long way off.

Would any instructors here say that starting golf by chipping and putting is actually a bad thing?

[newtogolf]

Interesting, so it seems that the putting did pay off some what and possibly the short game. However his full swing is still a long way off.

Would any instructors here say that starting golf by chipping and putting is actually a bad thing?

The question is can he putt as well outside his home course.  The greens at my home course are pretty fast (10-12) and I've learned how they play them but struggle on slower greens.

[Lihu]

This is a very cool story, unfortunately, I think his lack of sponsorship or funds along with lack of tournament play will ultimately be his downfall. Does anyone know where his current handicap is?

We're guessing in the 5-10 range. Mainly because of his long game which is strange given that his Trakman combine score put him in line with the average PGA players.

Interesting, so it seems that the putting did pay off some what and possibly the short game. However his full swing is still a long way off.

Would any instructors here say that starting golf by chipping and putting is actually a bad thing?

Not according to his combine scores. Curious that he can play so poorly during a tournament.

[garybbq]

We're guessing in the 5-10 range. Mainly because of his long game which is strange given that his Trakman combine score put him in line with the average PGA players.

Not according to his combine scores. Curious that he can play so poorly during a tournament.

I am not that familiar with what the combined score on trackman means, but when I look at the numbers and dispersion chart (or whatever its called) it looks like anything over 140 yds he is all over the place.

It doesn't surprise me that in any average length course he is often in trouble.

[Lihu]

I am not that familiar with what the combined score on trackman means, but when I look at the numbers and dispersion chart (or whatever its called) it looks like anything over 140 yds he is all over the place.

It doesn't surprise me that in any average length course he is often in trouble.

http://thedanplan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Dan-Plan-2013-06-21-Multi-Group-Report.pdf

Yeah, looking at his numbers they appear much worse than even mine past 140 yards. He has a lot of overlap in his clubs from 140 yards to 180 yards. 5i is pretty tight. Plus, he does hit his 9i 140 yards though. I only hit mine about 130 (46 degree loft) with a full swing. He might be over swinging to get the distances up. IDK.

Information on combine:

http://mytrackman.com/public/trackman-combine-intro

I must have misinterpreted the data at one point. He's on par with a 5 handicap according to the combine score, and not a PGA. I though I read somewhere where he was 80s. Oh well.

http://thedanplan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Combine-Test-for-Dan-Plan-2013-11-07.pdf

[Pretzel]

http://thedanplan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Dan-Plan-2013-06-21-Multi-Group-Report.pdf

Yeah, looking at his numbers they appear much worse than even mine past 140 yards. He has a lot of overlap in his clubs from 140 yards to 180 yards. 5i is pretty tight. Plus, he does hit his 9i 140 yards though. I only hit mine about 130 (46 degree loft) with a full swing. He might be over swinging to get the distances up. IDK.

Information on combine:

http://mytrackman.com/public/trackman-combine-intro

I must have misinterpreted the data at one point. He's on par with a 5 handicap according to the combine score, and not a PGA. I though I read somewhere where he was 80s. Oh well.

http://thedanplan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Combine-Test-for-Dan-Plan-2013-11-07.pdf

Something interesting is how wildly different his dispersion with each club is. He has ovals slanting in both directions, and no general miss pattern. It's tough to play tournament golf when you don't know if your miss will go left or if it will go right.

[iacas]

Would any instructors here say that starting golf by chipping and putting is actually a bad thing?

Yes, if too much time is spent doing it. Dan spent way, way, WAY too much time doing that stuff.

[garybbq]

Yes, if too much time is spent doing it. Dan spent way, way, WAY too much time doing that stuff.

Interesting, I know you cant speak for Dans coach but would you guess his theory is/was that the short game especially chipping and pitching is a version of the full swing and that's why he made him do that?