The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[RFKFREAK]

Oh, it would be terrible for him because he'd likely end up paying my green fee (That's the most I'd gamble for). It would tell him where he's at though as a realistic view of his progress.

Theoretically, that's what playing tournaments should do. Gambling against you (or any unknown entity) is generally a -EV proposition for Dan with respect to raising money to continue his, "project." The best way I can see him raising money by playing others is a modification of Erik's idea whereby, for example, if he charged a threesome say $1,000 to play a round, whomever from the threesome beats him would get a $150, "prize," or something as such. If there were an additional fee to fly him out there or some amenity, then maybe he could up it to something like a $250, "prize."

[Lihu]

Theoretically, that's what playing tournaments should do. Gambling against you (or any unknown entity) is generally a -EV proposition for Dan with respect to raising money to continue his, "project." The best way I can see him raising money by playing others is a modification of Erik's idea whereby, for example, if he charged a threesome say $1,000 to play a round, whomever from the threesome beats him would get a $150, "prize," or something as such. If there were an additional fee to fly him out there or some amenity, then maybe he could up it to something like a $250, "prize."

Dan states he is a 2-3 handicap. If it's really true, Tyler and Dan will most likely tie give or take a hole. Tyler is thinking (and so are many of us) that Dan is closer to a 10 or so handicap. Thus, Dan would not play a true 2.3 handicp for stakes.

[RFKFREAK]

Dan states he is a 2-3 handicap. If it's really true, Tyler and Dan will most likely tie give or take a hole. Tyler is thinking (and so are many of us) that Dan is closer to a 10 or so handicap. Thus, Dan would not play a true 2.3 handicp for stakes.

I understand that but for the sake of finding an avenue to obtain funding to continue his project, playing someone, even if he has a 2-3 handicap (which I don't believe) to a tie or gambling on who might win by a hole or two isn't the most conducive method to obtain funding. Even if he played @Pretzel at a handicap that lets say @iacas thought was accurate and fair, it still wouldn't be conducive to the goal of raising money to continue his, "project."

[HanNL]

It's funny that people do not believe his 2-3 hcp to be accurate. Why wouldn't it be? As a counter argument: I have never witnessed a 10 hcp to play a round under par, and Dan clearly has. (in stableford terms, this would mean the player would have around 50 or more stbf in that particular round).

On the other hand: there is no doubt Dan underperforms in tournaments. From his writing on his blog/ twitter, I understand that apparently, he has a mental blockade whenever he gets into tournament play. He is using vision54 to try and solve that.

PS. In The Netherlands, you can never get your handicap below 4.4 unless you play official tournaments.

[Shorty]

It's funny that people do not believe his 2-3 hcp to be accurate. Why wouldn't it be?

Perhaps you should look at some of his videos.

You don't think it odd that in "tournament" play, the fact that he can't break 80 means anything?

His mental blocks when he is scoring properly  - with a marker and playing by the rules  - means he can't play. Simple as that.

And what you call "official tournaments" are merely normal competition rounds. Dan doesn't even play in Saturday club comps! It's a joke.

How is he going to leapfrog the 16 year old amateur in the Australian Masters last week who made the cut with ease and finished 6 under? Or James Nitties who's barely surviving on the Web.com tour, yet came equal second with Adam Scott in the same tournament.

Dan thinks he's going to be playing on the PGA Tour, remember.

As I've said a dozen times. He wouldn't be in the top 50 players in any proper golf club in the USA, UK, Australia or New Zealand.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HanNL

It's funny that people do not believe his 2-3 hcp to be accurate. Why wouldn't it be?

Perhaps you should look at some of his videos.

You don't think it odd that in "tournament" play, the fact that he can't break 80 means anything?

His mental blocks when he is scoring properly  - with a marker and playing by the rules  - means he can't play. Simple as that.

And what you call "official tournaments" are merely normal competition rounds. Dan doesn't even play in Saturday club comps! It's a joke.

How is he going to leapfrog the 16 year old amateur in the Australian Masters last week who made the cut with ease and finished 6 under? Or James Nitties who's barely surviving on the Web.com tour, yet came equal second with Adam Scott in the same tournament.

Dan thinks he's going to be playing on the PGA Tour, remember.

As I've said a dozen times. He wouldn't be in the top 50 players in any proper golf club in the USA, UK, Australia or New Zealand.

I saw some video of him in a luxury lifestyle/travel show. He and another guy were challenged by the host to hit a par 3 green, I dunno, 150+ yards. He hit it fat, dumped it the water short of the carry and then proceeded to say I hit it this much fat, using thumb and forefinger to measure out a wee bit of air. It's just one instance, but maybe not too good under pressure? I dunno.

[GHIN0011458]

It's funny that people do not believe his 2-3 hcp to be accurate. Why wouldn't it be? As a counter argument: I have never witnessed a 10 hcp to play a round under par, and Dan clearly has. (in stableford terms, this would mean the player would have around 50 or more stbf in that particular round).

On the other hand: there is no doubt Dan underperforms in tournaments. From his writing on his blog/ twitter, I understand that apparently, he has a mental blockade whenever he gets into tournament play. He is using vision54 to try and solve that.

PS. In The Netherlands, you can never get your handicap below 4.4 unless you play official tournaments.

For me, once you get to playing tournaments, your handicap is only as good as how you score in tournaments. That is why I posted all of my tournament scores for the year in my handicap at the end of the year to see what my true handicap was and it went up ,6 so I am only a 0.5 now.

[GHIN0011458]

I saw some video of him in a luxury lifestyle/travel show. He and another guy were challenged by the host to hit a par 3 green, I dunno, 150+ yards. He hit it fat, dumped it the water short of the carry and then proceeded to say I hit it this much fat, using thumb and forefinger to measure out a wee bit of air. It's just one instance, but maybe not too good under pressure? I dunno.

I don't think I am quoting the right response but to your point on paying for tournaments- tournaments are cheaper than instruction. $150 for two rounds of golf(6-9 hours) vs $150 for 1/2 hour to 2 hours of instruction. There are things you learn when you play tournament golf too so it is worth the investment, for everyone really.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

I saw some video of him in a luxury lifestyle/travel show. He and another guy were challenged by the host to hit a par 3 green, I dunno, 150+ yards. He hit it fat, dumped it the water short of the carry and then proceeded to say I hit it this much fat, using thumb and forefinger to measure out a wee bit of air. It's just one instance, but maybe not too good under pressure? I dunno.

I don't think I am quoting the right response but to your point on paying for tournaments- tournaments are cheaper than instruction. $150 for two rounds of golf(6-9 hours) vs $150 for 1/2 hour to 2 hours of instruction. There are things you learn when you play tournament golf too so it is worth the investment, for everyone really.

I'm not saying he shouldn't play tournaments. I think the opposite. He should. As many as he can. My point is perhaps the guy just doesn't have the money.

[newtogolf]

I'm not saying he shouldn't play tournaments. I think the opposite. He should. As many as he can. My point is perhaps the guy just doesn't have the money.

I agree, but it would appear that the financial part of his plan was flawed if he didn't budget for tournaments as part of his journey to becoming a PGA Tour player.   He may have made way too many assumptions regarding sponsorship if he's half way through the plan and is unable to continue because he' doesn't have the money.

[GHIN0011458]

I'm not saying he shouldn't play tournaments. I think the opposite. He should. As many as he can. My point is perhaps the guy just doesn't have the money.

My point was that if he has money for all of this instruction, he has money for tournaments. IMO, he is avoiding tournaments on purpose. I bet he would have had more sponsorship come along if he had started playing tournament golf from the beginning so people could follow him. They would also be able to see progress on paper.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

I'm not saying he shouldn't play tournaments. I think the opposite. He should. As many as he can. My point is perhaps the guy just doesn't have the money.

My point was that if he has money for all of this instruction, he has money for tournaments. IMO, he is avoiding tournaments on purpose. I bet he would have had more sponsorship come along if he had started playing tournament golf from the beginning so people could follow him. They would also be able to see progress on paper.

I agree with you, but my not reading enough of his blog and the unsatisfactory amount of info there is (imho) - partially because you have to tread through so much wall of text - it doesn't seem like he's getting a lot of lessons to begin with? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Pretzel]

I agree with you, but my not reading enough of his blog and the unsatisfactory amount of info there is (imho) - partially because you have to tread through so much wall of text - it doesn't seem like he's getting a lot of lessons to begin with? Correct me if I'm wrong.

To me it seems like the most recent "lesson" he had was the freebie with the flightscope guy when he was being loaned it for a month.

Speaking of which, I haven't seen anything about it since he said he would be able to use it...

[HanNL]

His mental blocks when he is scoring properly  - with a marker and playing by the rules  - means he can't play. Simple as that.

To be honest, I don't think his mental block has anything to do with markers and playing by the rules. More to do with (and a lot of people have this), wanting to score because it is a tournament, instead of getting into the process of playing.

Of course he needs to play more tournaments to get to 'PGA' level. He also has around 4000 hours left to do just that. He used 6000 hours to get the technica and physical at a certain level, now he has another 4000 to get social, mental and emotional to that level. (Even though it is a different approach I would've taken, it might still work).

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

I agree with you, but my not reading enough of his blog and the unsatisfactory amount of info there is (imho) - partially because you have to tread through so much wall of text - it doesn't seem like he's getting a lot of lessons to begin with? Correct me if I'm wrong.

To me it seems like the most recent "lesson" he had was the freebie with the flightscope guy when he was being loaned it for a month.

Speaking of which, I haven't seen anything about it since he said he would be able to use it...

He may be emanating and projecting positive and feel good vibes, and talking the good talk but based on actions he's taken and lack of, it feels like to me and this is just one person's opinion, he's checked out, at least for now.

[Pretzel]

To be honest, I don't think his mental block has anything to do with markers and playing by the rules. More to do with (and a lot of people have this), wanting to score because it is a tournament, instead of getting into the process of playing.

Of course he needs to play more tournaments to get to 'PGA' level. He also has around 4000 hours left to do just that. He used 6000 hours to get the technica and physical at a certain level, now he has another 4000 to get social, mental and emotional to that level. (Even though it is a different approach I would've taken, it might still work).

His "mental" block is something called vanity handicapping. He does not play to a 3.1 and I would bet that he's never truly sniffed the lower single digits. I'm confident enough there that I would bet $100 that, if he were given a marker and observed so that he would play by the rules, he wouldn't break 80 more than 50% of the time in his no-pressure practice rounds.

Yes, you do blow up in tournaments when you do it for the first time compared to how you normally play. That's natural. What's not natural (for a low single digit player) is the way he describes courses that he plays. He describes the first cut of rough at a course in Switzerland as follows: " When the ball landed off the fairway in the deep rough you literally had to hit a wedge 20 yards back to the fairway instead of trying to advance the ball ."

He earlier described his encounter with a small root during his first tournament: " Seemed like an obvious choice to punch out, but my ball was sitting against a half-inch thick blackberry root jutting out of the ground and over the ball.  My mind thought of a friend, Chan Song, who broke his hand trying to hit off of a root and who told me it was never worth it, even in competition. "

I can tell you right now that there isn't rough thick enough (barring stuff that is classified as native grass and is up a good deal past your ankles) that will force me to only hack out 20 yards. I won't be going for the green in two on a par five out of it, but I won't be just hitting a pitch shot back to the fairway. The root is even more baffling. The dude is worried about breaking his hand on a half inch blackberry root. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about the root, because it's so tiny and I would tear through it like tissue paper.

Dan does not speak in his blogs as though he were an accomplished golfer. He speaks as though he is someone who is an average to above average (high single digits to low teens is still quite respectable) golfer who likes to make excuses as to why he isn't shooting better scores.

[Lihu]

His "mental" block is something called vanity handicapping. He does not play to a 3.1 and I would bet that he's never truly sniffed the lower single digits. I'm confident enough there that I would bet $100 that, if he were given a marker and observed so that he would play by the rules, he wouldn't break 80 more than 50% of the time in his no-pressure practice rounds.

Yes, you do blow up in tournaments when you do it for the first time compared to how you normally play. That's natural. What's not natural (for a low single digit player) is the way he describes courses that he plays. He describes the first cut of rough at a course in Switzerland as follows: "When the ball landed off the fairway in the deep rough you literally had to hit a wedge 20 yards back to the fairway instead of trying to advance the ball."

He earlier described his encounter with a small root during his first tournament: "Seemed like an obvious choice to punch out, but my ball was sitting against a half-inch thick blackberry root jutting out of the ground and over the ball.  My mind thought of a friend, Chan Song, who broke his hand trying to hit off of a root and who told me it was never worth it, even in competition."

I can tell you right now that there isn't rough thick enough (barring stuff that is classified as native grass and is up a good deal past your ankles) that will force me to only hack out 20 yards. I won't be going for the green in two on a par five out of it, but I won't be just hitting a pitch shot back to the fairway. The root is even more baffling. The dude is worried about breaking his hand on a half inch blackberry root. Honestly I wouldn't have even thought about the root, because it's so tiny and I would tear through it like tissue paper.

Dan does not speak in his blogs as though he were an accomplished golfer. He speaks as though he is someone who is an average to above average (high single digits to low teens is still quite respectable) golfer who likes to make excuses as to why he isn't shooting better scores.

These are the things that makes me think even a 10 HC is pushing it. If he claims to hit 270 yards and be a 2-3 handicap, these are trivial obstacles. It really boggles the mind.

[HanNL]

I am not sure why you are both so vigorously criticizing him. He might or he might not be a 'real' 3.1 handicap, he might or he might not talk as an 'accomplished' player would. I do not think either of you have met him (neither have I for that matter), so I am puzzled as to why you would be so anti-Dan (I have tried to think of a more appropriate word, but I hope you get the gist of it).

Personally, I don't think he is taking the route I would have taken, but then again, it is his route. The way I see it he is still walking in the general direction of his goal. It remains to be seen whether he makes it within 10k hours.