The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[jamo]

Lot of excuses about the equipment... Played another tournament, shot:  92-82  shot +30 over. Also, as I predicted several months back (when he was a 5.9) , it looks like his handicap should be 7.27 with the next revision. This will ultimately be about a 1 index gain in the last 8 months. last 20 scores: Writing is on the wall...

Yup. He's hitting that mid-single digits wall that a lot of us have experienced.

[onesome]

http://thedanplan.com/ Current index 6.5

[x129]

Here is a bump. He has decided to switch coaches (nothing wrong with that) but he only saw the previous coach 7 times this year. Obviously I don't know any details but I am thinking if you putting in 2000 hours of practice you should be seeing your coach a heck of a lot more often than that. After a coach suggest a swing change, I would want to see him after working on it for 40 hours to make sure I had it right.  I still think he will be a +1 type guy but learning he hasn't been getting coaching lowers my confidence in that.

[mchepp]

His new coach is a really nice guy and works at the club he plays at. I expect him to improve at a slightly faster pace than before. Still my biggest concern is over his distance. If he played with a PGA Tour player, even an guy in the middle of the pack in terms of distance he would be 30 yards behind them and at least 2 clubs shorter. He needs to find a way to pick up distance in my opinion.

[David in FL]

His new coach is a really nice guy and works at the club he plays at. I expect him to improve at a slightly faster pace than before. Still my biggest concern is over his distance. If he played with a PGA Tour player, even an guy in the middle of the pack in terms of distance he would be 30 yards behind them and at least 2 clubs shorter. He needs to find a way to pick up distance in my opinion.

I understand the distance issue as it relates to tour play, but right now he can't be competitive in a local club championship. Heck, at a 6.5 he may not even make the championship flight! He needs to start getting the ball in the hole in a LOT fewer strokes at whatever length he's playing.....and quickly. In looking at his handicap card, it looks like he's not playing the 6800 yd tips at his home course. In fact, he plays a lot from 2 tees up, at 6380 yds.

[divot dave]

Originally Posted by x129

Here is a bump. He has decided to switch coaches (nothing wrong with that) but he only saw the previous coach 7 times this year. Obviously I don't know any details but I am thinking if you putting in 2000 hours of practice you should be seeing your coach a heck of a lot more often than that. After a coach suggest a swing change, I would want to see him after working on it for 40 hours to make sure I had it right.  I still think he will be a +1 type guy but learning he hasn't been getting coaching lowers my confidence in that.

Totally agree. Watching some of the episodes he would post, I never got a great vibe from his old coach. He really seemed a little on the arrogant side, and not very supportive. I'm not sure what the real reason is behind only seeing him 7 times in a year, but its definitely indicative of a problem.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by divot dave

Totally agree. Watching some of the episodes he would post, I never got a great vibe from his old coach. He really seemed a little on the arrogant side, and not very supportive. I'm not sure what the real reason is behind only seeing him 7 times in a year, but its definitely indicative of a problem.

I'm guessing it was purely a financial issue?  For both sides?  If Dan had the funds, he could go see the coach more - or have the coach come see him.  The swing coach has a life and needs to pay bills just like everyone else.  I'm guessing he can't do something for free, just because?  It sounds like Dan has found a more equitable solution in having a swing coach that is local and works at the club he plays.

[Billzfan]

I think it's impossible to get there without natural talent.  To me, the 10,000 hours of practice theory just doesn't work.  Golf is a complete game, that has very strict and cruel facets.  You must be average off the tee.  You must be average in GIR.  You must be way above average in up and downs, sand saves, and putts.

I liken it to Shaq when he played for the Heat, Lakers, Celtics, Magic...he was an awful free throw shooter and had zero range.  He was able to flourish, win world titles, make millions of dollars, was an All-Star a hundred times over because of his tremendous size, length and athleticism.  What he lacked was the hand/eye cooordination to be a good free throw shooter.  Thankfully, he did enough things well that his poor foul shooting didn't hurt his team or career too much.  If basketball was more like golf, Shaq would have never played.  You can't have a single, glaring weakness in golf.

Liken the above example to the Dan Plan.  If he puts in the time, practices, practices, practices (like he is) but is devoid of the natural talent needed to shoot low scores (hand/eye coordination) - then he will fail.  He could probably get to a low single digit or maybe even a plus handicap on work ethic and repitition alone.  However, does he possess the natural talent to play on tour.  Probably not.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Billzfan

I think it's impossible to get there without natural talent.  To me, the 10,000 hours of practice theory just doesn't work.  Golf is a complete game, that has very strict and cruel facets.  You must be average off the tee.  You must be average in GIR.  You must be way above average in up and downs, sand saves, and putts.

I liken it to Shaq when he played for the Heat, Lakers, Celtics, Magic...he was an awful free throw shooter and had zero range.  He was able to flourish, win world titles, make millions of dollars, was an All-Star a hundred times over because of his tremendous size, length and athleticism.  What he lacked was the hand/eye cooordination to be a good free throw shooter.  Thankfully, he did enough things well that his poor foul shooting didn't hurt his team or career too much.  If basketball was more like golf, Shaq would have never played.  You can't have a single, glaring weakness in golf.

Liken the above example to the Dan Plan.  If he puts in the time, practices, practices, practices (like he is) but is devoid of the natural talent needed to shoot low scores (hand/eye coordination) - then he will fail.  He could probably get to a low single digit or maybe even a plus handicap on work ethic and repitition alone.  However, does he possess the natural talent to play on tour.  Probably not.

Hi Billzfan!

You should go back and read this entire thread, you may find it interesting.  We discussed this exact topic ad nauseum for several weeks.  Does he have talent?  Is there a such thing is inate talent?  Can any schmo just practice 10k hours and perfect something?  and on and on.  Spoiler Alert:  There is no answer and no way to prove it.  If he succeeds one side can say "see, 10k hours is all he needed" and at the same time the other side can say "see, he already had the talent."  And if he fails, "Yeah, he just wasn't talented enough" or "it obviously wasn't 10k hours of 'perfect' practice" both can be claimed.

At this point, it's just kind of interesting to check in on him every month or so to see how he has or has not progressed.

Cheers.

[Datsyuk]

Originally Posted by Billzfan

I think it's impossible to get there without natural talent.  To me, the 10,000 hours of practice theory just doesn't work.  Golf is a complete game, that has very strict and cruel facets.  You must be average off the tee.  You must be average in GIR.  You must be way above average in up and downs, sand saves, and putts.

I liken it to Shaq when he played for the Heat, Lakers, Celtics, Magic...he was an awful free throw shooter and had zero range.  He was able to flourish, win world titles, make millions of dollars, was an All-Star a hundred times over because of his tremendous size, length and athleticism.  What he lacked was the hand/eye cooordination to be a good free throw shooter.  Thankfully, he did enough things well that his poor foul shooting didn't hurt his team or career too much.  If basketball was more like golf, Shaq would have never played.  You can't have a single, glaring weakness in golf.

Liken the above example to the Dan Plan.  If he puts in the time, practices, practices, practices (like he is) but is devoid of the natural talent needed to shoot low scores (hand/eye coordination) - then he will fail.  He could probably get to a low single digit or maybe even a plus handicap on work ethic and repitition alone.  However, does he possess the natural talent to play on tour.  Probably not.

?

Are you suggesting Dan's hour counter should be titled. "Hours Wasted"?

[x129]

My understanding is that Shaq's free throw percentage in practice was over 90%. He couldn't take it to the game for various reasons which were part mental (years of failure) and part physical (he took a lot of physical abuse down low). I also never got the impression that Shaq was big on practice. He would go through spurts where he would work hard but I always got the feeling that he would rather be working on a rap album than practicing jump shots. There are a lot of guys that come into the league as slashers who develop jump shots.  Is that because of talent or hard work? No on can really say,

If not seeing the coach was a money issue, Dan needs to get a part time job. He needs to be able to drop 5k on instruction every year without blinking.  I have no clue if his coach was good or bad (for him) but if it isn't working out you need to make a change asap and not waste hours.

I find the blog post today even more discouraging: Dan has decide to become a club ho I am actually not that against club hoing but the way he is doing it doesn't seem very methodical.

Quote:

I think it's impossible to get there without natural talent.  To me, the 10,000 hours of practice theory just doesn't work.  Golf is a complete game, that has very strict and cruel facets.  You must be average off the tee.  You must be average in GIR.  You must be way above average in up and downs, sand saves, and putts.

I liken it to Shaq when he played for the Heat, Lakers, Celtics, Magic...he was an awful free throw shooter and had zero range.  He was able to flourish, win world titles, make millions of dollars, was an All-Star a hundred times over because of his tremendous size, length and athleticism.  What he lacked was the hand/eye cooordination to be a good free throw shooter.  Thankfully, he did enough things well that his poor foul shooting didn't hurt his team or career too much.  If basketball was more like golf, Shaq would have never played.  You can't have a single, glaring weakness in golf.

Liken the above example to the Dan Plan.  If he puts in the time, practices, practices, practices (like he is) but is devoid of the natural talent needed to shoot low scores (hand/eye coordination) - then he will fail.  He could probably get to a low single digit or maybe even a plus handicap on work ethic and repitition alone.  However, does he possess the natural talent to play on tour.  Probably not.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by x129

If not seeing the coach was a money issue, Dan needs to get a part time job. He needs to be able to drop 5k on instruction every year without blinking.  I have no clue if his coach was good or bad (for him) but if it isn't working out you need to make a change asap and not waste hours.

I find the blog post today even more discouraging: Dan has decide to become a club ho I am actually not that against club hoing but the way he is doing it doesn't seem very methodical.

I agree with the first statement.  Without doing the research, was his coach in a different geography?  Perhaps he didn't have the funds to travel, etc... And having his coach come see him was not feasible?  Again, I think if that was the case, then he should've made the change sooner.  Sounds like he made the right choice if his coach is at the same course he is regularly playing?  I mean, having an extra set of eyes - especially if they are trained eyes - regularly reviewing your swing is a good thing in my mind.

And the 2nd point, perhaps he is getting more into the club side of things to get a sponsor?  You never know...

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by x129

My understanding is that Shaq's free throw percentage in practice was over 90%. He couldn't take it to the game for various reasons which were part mental (years of failure) and part physical (he took a lot of physical abuse down low). I also never got the impression that Shaq was big on practice.

Not sure about his practice free throw %, but he was certainly notorious for not working hard - especially in the off season.  He always used the first couple of months of the regular season to get into shape.

Also, it's pretty common that your big giant centers like Shaq and Dwight Howard suck at free throw shooting ... because it's out of their range.  They don't EVER shoot from outside 5 or 6 feet during the game.  I think part of that reason is that they have enormous hands and it's hard to have any touch or feel shooting from distance.  Think about how hard it would be to be consistent shooting jumpers with a softball.  That's obviously a tad extreme, but its the same concept.

Whoops, that was waaay off topic, huh?  My bad.  (Can't help it ... I got excited because basketball season is here!)

[Datsyuk]

Originally Posted by jamo

Yup. He's hitting that mid-single digits wall that a lot of us have experienced.

He needs to shave a few more strokes off his index to hit your wall.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Also, it's pretty common that your big giant centers like Shaq and Dwight Howard suck at free throw shooting ... because it's out of their range.  They don't EVER shoot from outside 5 or 6 feet during the game.  I think part of that reason is that they have enormous hands and it's hard to have any touch or feel shooting from distance.  Think about how hard it would be to be consistent shooting jumpers with a softball.  That's obviously a tad extreme, but its the same concept.

Whoops, that was waaay off topic, huh?  My bad.  (Can't help it ... I got excited because basketball season is here!)

Yeah but small guys like Muggsy Bogues - wouldn't that be like shooting free throws with a medicine ball?  He was able to have 82% career average from the line.  And was a successful NBA player for 13yrs.  I think size has some limitations (plus and minuses) in different facets of sports.

But a lot of reaching your goal in my opinion is RMA - Right Mental Attitude.  Not quitting and fighting for your goal - every single day.  Guys like Rudy are examples of RMA - and reaching a goal.

I have no idea if Dan has RMA or not?

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Datsyuk

He needs to shave a few more strokes off his index to hit your wall.

What's his current index?  The last I saw was a 6 or something like that?

[mchepp]

And the 2nd point, perhaps he is getting more into the club side of things to get a sponsor?  You never know...

I think that the club he is currently at gives him some sort of deal. Like a free membership for the advertising. Something like that.

[x129]

I have heard a lot of theories but hand size is a new one. Guys like Hakeem, Yao Ming, Dirk, Laimbeer and several other big man have been pretty good from the foul line so it is more than being big. I know Rick Barry has tried to convince every poor shooting big man to give grannie style a shot. None of them have the guts to do it in a game. His theory is that a lot of the talls guys get way to flat.The other reason the big guys don't shoot free throws is because they don't need to. Shaq was a dominate NBA player despite his FT woes.  Sort of like how Jack didn't spend time on his short game until the late 70s.

There are a lot of junior golfers that sort of fall into this trap. They dominate for a while because their long game (or short game/putting) is a lot better than their peers. They don't focus enough on their weaknesses and eventually their advantages are neutralized.

I will reiterate that I think the Dan plan is hitting the fun stage. Most of us I think will agree getting down to a single digit is in the realm of feasibility for most under 40 guys if they could practice for 3k hours.  The question is over the next 3k hours can you get a lot better.  I am voting for 4-5 shots next year and then 1-2 over the rest of the run.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Not sure about his practice free throw %, but he was certainly notorious for not working hard - especially in the off season.  He always used the first couple of months of the regular season to get into shape.

Also, it's pretty common that your big giant centers like Shaq and Dwight Howard suck at free throw shooting ... because it's out of their range.  They don't EVER shoot from outside 5 or 6 feet during the game.  I think part of that reason is that they have enormous hands and it's hard to have any touch or feel shooting from distance.  Think about how hard it would be to be consistent shooting jumpers with a softball.  That's obviously a tad extreme, but its the same concept.

Whoops, that was waaay off topic, huh?  My bad.  (Can't help it ... I got excited because basketball season is here!)