The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Slice of Life]

Plus, the mental game isn't terribly important.

I was gonna say...shouldn't a guy like Dan focus on the obviously problems with the physical aspect the game before worrying about getting a mental coach?

[Lihu]

Further proof that your genetic make up is more of a determining factor on how good you can be, the chess player that had to spend 22 more hours than another to reach the same level, and the identical/fraternal twin test proves it even more. I know my posts are mostly critical of Dan and the reason I am that way is that he looks at this process in way too simplistic terms, he at this point should already realize there is no holy grail to the golf swing and that after all these hours he should be aware of how elusive good ball striking can be, but it seems like we still hear the same old verbatim we hear at driving ranges about getting that "one" little key element dialed in and all the planets will fall in line with a perfect swing, hopefully Dan has an epiphany one day and realizes just how difficult this game really is and approaches it from a more humble realistic way. We have seen others without mentioning names make posts about how by this date they can reach this goal and by this another and that's just simply not how it works, too often players reach a plateau in playing ability and think there is improvement out there upon what they have already but the reality is what they may have could be complete crap and they need to completely deconstruct themselves in order to move beyond their current level, in Dans case I believe he in fact is in this predicament and probably needs to undo some things in order to get back on track. The poster that said he has played a few rounds with Dan pretty much shedded light upon what most of us believed already and that was Dan is a poor ball striker but a better short game player than his index and honestly that makes lots of sense since he does put in way more hours working on his short game than much of us do, I'm basically the opposite of being a better ball striker than short game player just because I simply don't put the hours in like Dan. I think Dan could still reach scratch level if he decides to break things down with his full swing and completely dedicates himself towards the process.

Agreed, but the possibility of him getting to scratch is diminishing for him. He just does not appear to have the muscle mass, much less fast twitch muscle. That's definitely part of the "born" part you were alluding to earlier in your post. Even the shortest scratch golfers I have met are pretty muscular even at 5'4". Look at Luke Donald, he's about Dan's height. Luke is pretty well muscled. Of course, Luke is a touring pro. When you turn 30 it is very hard to develop fast twitch muscle if you did not have the natural affinity to build it. There are plenty of exceptions to the over 30 part, but not as many to the natural affinity part. It takes a ton of hard work to overcome natural deficiency. So, Dan is still about the same frame as when he started and it is unlikely he can build the needed mass. Not impossible, but a really low chance. I'm not saying he needs to look like a body builder, but he needs enough mass to make the fast swings and power to blast irons through deep rough and half inch roots to save pars. Scratch golfers are pretty impressive, too.

[flopster]

I'm disappointed in Dan spending so much time & money traveling to expensive mental camps. There is at least one great mental coach in the Portland area in Jim Waldron of BalancePointGolf. Dan could work with him during the entire Portland golf season.

I'm rooting for Dan and wish him the best. I really wish he would see his local PGA pro more often. It's apparent that his ball striking should be his top priority at this point.

I would even consider monthly contributions, if he were more prudent with his budget.

Like I said earlier it looks like Dan thinks he has something of a golf game to build upon/around and that simply is not the case, He needs to concentrate on basic swing mechanics and get that thoroughly ingrained into his motion, looking briefly at his stats his driver stats are just screaming inconsistent as hell, his misses are dead even left and right basically this means he has no clue to where the ball is going and I even more doubt he could even work it to any degree as well. If he wants to believe that it's between the ears that's holding him back then I guess I agree as well it's just his interpretation is what I disagree with. I don't know if Dan has anyone telling him not to waste his time and money on these seminars but if so he would be better off to listen.

[Lihu]

Like I said earlier it looks like Dan thinks he has something of a golf game to build upon/around and that simply is not the case, He needs to concentrate on basic swing mechanics and get that thoroughly ingrained into his motion, looking briefly at his stats his driver stats are just screaming inconsistent as hell, his misses are dead even left and right basically this means he has no clue to where the ball is going and I even more doubt he could even work it to any degree as well. If he wants to believe that it's between the ears that's holding him back then I guess I agree as well it's just his interpretation is what I disagree with. I don't know if Dan has anyone telling him not to waste his time and money on these seminars but if so he would be better off to listen.

We might have different ideas as to what he is missing in order to accomplish this. Do you think it is basic conditioning, building more power or "simply" getting the motions correct?

"simply" is in quotes, because as we all know it's really hard!

[MS256]

We might have different ideas as to what he is missing in order to accomplish this. Do you think it is basic conditioning, building more power or "simply" getting the motions correct?

"simply" is in quotes, because as we all know it's really hard!

This is golf we are talking about, right???

I am bigger, stronger, and faster than all of the guys that regularly kick my butt in golf.

[flopster]

Well he has managed to get his index to 3.6 again but once again has an unusually high anti cap 9.4, I checked myself at 9.2 anti but a higher actual index at 6.2, Dan has got to be one of the most hot and cold players I have ever seen or something else is happening. Unless maybe there is something going on he may in fact have concentration issues and he should be shooting mid low 70's consistently but his head just gets in the way, when I was starting to shoot 70's some years ago I remember being able to do it fairly consistent this guy is just all over the place according to his posting.

[Lihu]

This is golf we are talking about, right???

I am bigger, stronger, and faster than all of the guys that regularly kick my butt in golf.

Like I stated further up the post chain, I'm not thinking he needs to look like a body builder. Just that he has enough mass to actually swing the club fast enough to be a scratch golfer. Still takes some strength.

[flopster]

We might have different ideas as to what he is missing in order to accomplish this. Do you think it is basic conditioning, building more power or "simply" getting the motions correct?

"simply" is in quotes, because as we all know it's really hard!

Good technique goes a long ways towards consistency in distance and accuracy, I know guys who swing the club faster than me but I still outdrive them with better mechanics.

[Slice of Life]

Good technique goes a long ways towards consistency in distance and accuracy, I know guys who swing the club faster than me but I still outdrive them with better mechanics.

Proper mechanics increase your swing speed.

I was on the simulator at GG a week ago trying out hybrids...and one of my smoothest feeling swings hit 103 mph. Some of my swings that felt much faster were closer to 95-97 mph.

Proper technique will get you far, but unless you have a fast swing speed, you won't get a lot of distance off the tee. You need both.

[Lihu]

Good technique goes a long ways towards consistency in distance and accuracy, I know guys who swing the club faster than me but I still outdrive them with better mechanics.

How do you get that "good technique"? I think it takes some strength. Even watching super thin high school kids at the driving range, you can see that they have some serious fast twitch muscle. I think good technique is a requirement, but you also need some strength.

Even scratch seems to be a difficult target for Dan.

Is scratch attainable by all the golfers on this site? Who knows? It depends upon a lot of things, but I would guess that it's not out of the realm of possibilities. That's why we're all here, to explore our potential.

[Pretzel]

Unless maybe there is something going on he may in fact have concentration issues and he should be shooting mid low 70's consistently but his head just gets in the way, when I was starting to shoot 70's some years ago I remember being able to do it fairly consistent this guy is just all over the place according to his posting.

There's definitely something else going on, such as vanity handicapping.

You just don't go from shooting mid-low 70's to never once breaking 80 in a tournament (unless he's done this without me noticing). The first tournament you ever play in turns you into a ball of nerves and I expected 85-ish scores from him (I shot 116-108 in my first tournament ever off a 24 handicap), but he should be improving his tournament scores to his handicap fairly soon. I personally don't put much stock in the scores he posts himself (I noted some of the inconsistencies I found in his statistics in an earlier post), but I do believe the tournament results. I would peg him as being around an 8 to 12 handicap if he were honest with himself.

[Lihu]

There's definitely something else going on, such as vanity handicapping.

You just don't go from shooting mid-low 70's to never once breaking 80 in a tournament (unless he's done this without me noticing). The first tournament you ever play in turns you into a ball of nerves and I expected 85-ish scores from him (I shot 116-108 in my first tournament ever off a 24 handicap), but he should be improving his tournament scores to his handicap fairly soon. I personally don't put much stock in the scores he posts himself (I noted some of the inconsistencies I found in his statistics in an earlier post), but I do believe the tournament results. I would peg him as being around an 8 to 12 handicap if he were honest with himself.

There is incentive for him to do so.

He might be a bit better than a 12. On an unfamiliar course he still shot in the high 80s. Guessing 6 to 10?

[garybbq]

I'm disappointed in Dan spending so much time & money traveling to expensive mental camps. There is at least one great mental coach in the Portland area in Jim Waldron of BalancePointGolf. Dan could work with him during the entire Portland golf season. I'm rooting for Dan and wish him the best. I really wish he would see his local PGA pro more often. It's apparent that his ball striking should be his top priority at this point. I would even consider monthly contributions, if he were more prudent with his budget.

Dan has been to see a few pros and bottom line is he doesn't want to follow the instruction, I mean for the last year he has the same swing flaw. He claims to be doing deliberate practice 6 days a week but just ends up "playing 18". For some crazy reason he seems to think his swing is good and he needs mental work, he obviously has never been to the range at a pga tournament.

[nevets88]

I respectfully disagree that he doesn't have the physical makeup to be scratch. Imho, he looks strong enough. Imho, I think he has not been getting enough good info for an extended period of time. Like for 4+ years, ouch. If he doesn't get to scratch it's lack of coordination, athleticism, not a strength thing. And his followthrough, ouch, my back hurts just mentally visualizing it. I also wonder why there isn't a blog post on his site addressing Gladwell's article in the New Yorker, where Gladwell adds conditions to his opinion on the 10K hypotheses. If he gets a tv show, would you watch? Stream it? I dunno, but I probably wouldn't pay for it.

[MS256]

I never take this thread seriously, and have thought the 10,000 hour thing was utter nonsense from the first time I heard of it.

I do wonder how much competitive golf Dan plays. I'm not talking about the tournaments he enters occasionally but just something like a daily game at a club or something where everybody knows what he shot.

It would get him used to either beating people or going home broke. If you can't beat the guys at the club you definitely aren't going anywhere on a national level.

Somebody half-jokingly told me one time that if you can't beat a scramble of the best two players at the local club you have no chance to be a touring pro.

[flopster]

Proper mechanics increase your swing speed.

I was on the simulator at GG a week ago trying out hybrids...and one of my smoothest feeling swings hit 103 mph. Some of my swings that felt much faster were closer to 95-97 mph.

Proper technique will get you far, but unless you have a fast swing speed, you won't get a lot of distance off the tee. You need both.

I'll admit not knowing the formula but I'm sure someone swinging at 98mph with a efficient launch angle and smash factor can consistently outdrive someone swinging 105mph that is all over the clubface.

[Pretzel]

I never take this thread seriously, and have thought the 10,000 hour thing was utter nonsense from the first time I heard of it.

I do wonder how much competitive golf Dan plays. I'm not talking about the tournaments he enters occasionally but just something like a daily game at a club or something where everybody knows what he shot.

It would get him used to either beating people or going home broke. If you can't beat the guys at the club you definitely aren't going anywhere on a national level.

Somebody half-jokingly told me one time that if you can't beat a scramble of the best two players at the local club you have no chance to be a touring pro.

Money games are actually a great way to prepare for tournament pressure. My high school coach unofficially encouraged us to gamble with each other during practices and practice rounds. When you're on the 18th tee and you know there's a 5 hole carryover (with a press) on the line, it makes you behave as you would in a tournament!

[nevets88]

I'd bet he'd lose less money playing money games than he's paying for Vision 54 and associated expenses. I know I ain't taking no clinic that makes me take a stinkin' pledge. Big eyeroll.