Can I be a scratch 10 years from now?

[tristanhilton85]

If you just continue to play and not practice, then no, you don't have a chance at getting to scratch.  Even if you do practice, you may not get much better unless you really know what to work on... otherwise you'll just be practicing bad habits.

Now that's not to say that you won't improve at all... you can get that handicap down just by playing if you pay attention and start to learn course management and to play your own game.  I've seen plenty of 8s and 9s that have a shaky swing that still score fairly well because they know what they are capable of and what they are not and they avoid huge numbers on the card.

If you really want to get to scratch, lessons (and probably lots of them) are a must and the sooner the better as it is very hard to "unlearn" bad habits/mechanics.  Even with lots of lessons, scratch will be very hard to get to however.

[x129]

It is unlikely you will get significantly better doing the same thing you have done for the last 3 years.  Could you become scratch if you tried? Who knows. Very few people come close to maximizing their golf potential. Very few should even try. Most people should not spend 25+ hours/week in their 20s/30s practicing, working out,  and actually playing because the difference in their life between being the 5 handicap and scratch is pretty much zero for them.

Originally Posted by very handicap

I've been playing golf for 3 years.  Until now, I'm still playing in the low 90 with occasional high 80s.  Today, while i was playing an exceptionally bad game, a question pop up in my mind..... at the rate i'm going, will i ever be a scratch player a decade from now?

I play at the local course 3 times a week and i don't go to the range.  Without going to a pro for any lesson, will my game get better and becoming a much better golfer?

I know no one can predict future, but can anyone who have played more than 10 years help to share your experience?  Especially if you play 2-3 times a week.

[max power]

Nope.

[motteler621]

your going to need good instruction and a love for the range. Just playing doesnt make you better,

[Gerald]

Quote:

Depends on the difficulty of his course.  A 15 playing to his handicap on a 72/130 course would be shooting an 89, so he should be in the low 90s about 3/4 of the time.

Sorry but I don't agree, A guy calling himself a serious golfer, wanting to become a scratch player in 10 years, having a 15 index, needs to play a 15-18 handicap at any course and when playing at a shorter/easier course he might well have to play in the mid 80's to be a 15.

[mattttt25]

I'm going to disagree with most and say you have a better chance than most.  You play 3 times a week already?  I know I don't have that type of time, and I think time is a big factor.  So going forward, you have 3 days of 4-5 hrs you can dedicate towards your goal.  That's a big plus in my mind.

Now as others have said, you need to change what you do with that time.  Find a good instructor, rework your entire swing, and spend half of that time practicing instead of hacking up the course.  In one year you're going to know if you have a shot at your goal.

As a side note, I honestly believe you can accomplish pretty much anything in 10 years with the proper amount of dedication and a plan.

[SamW]

I've seen somebody go from being a regular 15 h'cap (over more than 30 years) player to a good 3 h'cap in 2 years so I believe it can be done. The effort involved and the amount of drive was huge, he had a life changing event that gave him incredible drive which I won't go into.

The amount of time invested in practice and money invested in coaching was pretty immense, he went from playing once a week to practicing every day for over an hour, lessons twice a week and playing around 2-3 rounds/week. Still the biggest thing with will/drive, its turning a short term obsession into a daily habit and having total dedication to the task even after disaster rounds. He would be scratch now I'm sure but he didn't have that long to go unfortunately and coming down from 3 to scratch is not at all an overnight thing.

What I would say is there's really more than one type of 15 handicapper, there's those that are already playing the game near their natural ability cap and getting very steady bogeys around the course and there's those that are more wild but have good natural ability and ball striking. He was the latter, and I think this is important, his best shots would make a pro happy even when he was playing off 15 therefore he had a good platform to build on.

Are you sure you want to be scratch in 10 years?

My focus right now is breaking 80 regularly, I know I can do it there's no doubt in my mind that it will take some discipline, my circumstances have changed I can put more effort into the game than I ever could before but mostly I just want it more!

[JoelCochran]

I would pay a lot of attention to the quality of life issues being hinted about here.  Let's assume that you are physically capable (and still will be in 10 years), and let's assume you can devote 20+ hours a week to the game, and let's assume you can afford good fitted equipment, and let's assume you can find a good teacher who teaches YOU and not a method, and let's assume you are willing to sacrifice playing time for quality practice time (at least 2 hours of practice for every hour of play).  That's a lot of assuming, and frankly the odds are still against you, but I would concede it's possible.

The question becomes "is all of that worth it?"  I grew up playing golf, it was something very special in my youth that formed a permanent bond in my soul (it sounds like new age poetic garbage, but I'm sure there are others here who understand what I'm saying).  I spent unbelievable amounts of time on the golf course when I should have been on the range.  I never took lessons, which I wish I had, but in the Army I eventually got to a single digit handicap so I thought I could play.  I went to Golf school in Orlando for 7 months during which time they utterly destroyed my swing and rebuilt it from scratch, an extremely painful experience but one that I desperately needed.

Unfortunately, life got in the way and I really haven't played much the last 14 years. In March, though, my wife suggested we join the local club and now I'm doing all of those things in paragraph 1. It's an obsession really, but I'm already back to the high 70s-low 80s (HC hasn't caught up yet with recent play).  My goal is single digits HC by the end of the year and under 5 in 3 years so I can play in the Mid-Amateur.  But work and golf are pretty much my entire life.  I think what I'm trying to say is if you *really* want this, be prepared to sacrifice for it.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Gerald

Sorry but I don't agree, A guy calling himself a serious golfer, wanting to become a scratch player in 10 years, having a 15 index, needs to play a 15-18 handicap at any course and when playing at a shorter/easier course he might well have to play in the mid 80's to be a 15.

Not sure what you mean by "don't agree" --- I'm not saying anything there about whether he'll make it to scratch, only pointing out that on some courses, a 15 index will play to a higher score.  That's just math... maybe this is a disagreement due to US vs Europe handicap systems, though.  I am talking about USGA handicaps.

To address the broader point, I don't know that I'd agree with the specific numbers you cited, but I do tend to agree that stalling at 15 (or whatever) after a few years isn't a good indication that they'll make it.  Given that he's also not practicing or getting lessons, I think it's a little harder to conclude he won't make it, though, since he might find different results by concentrating on improving through practice and/or fixing technical flaws through lessons.

Still, if someone asks "can I get to scratch?" it's unlikely to be wrong to say "no" in any case...

[superbarnsley]

If only.  It's not impossible, dude, but the odds are stacked (and possibly tilted) against you.

[kurisu]

wow, you guys are all so positive and encouraging.

There are different ways to say "no chance" to someone that might also avoid making the guy lose his confidence.

The way to scratch goes through stages. If the guy sets his target on scratch, dedicates his time to more practice, rather than meaningless play, he will drop his handicap. How low will he eventually get to? under 10? under 7?

Will he actually realise he may never get down to scratch along the way? most probably.

But he may find himself happy with knowing he tried his hardest and reach the maximum level he can.

And that's probably his true target.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by kurisu

wow, you guys are all so positive and encouraging.

There are different ways to say "no chance" to someone that might also avoid making the guy lose his confidence.

Anyone who would have his confidence shaken by anonymous posters on a golf forum probably has more problems than just his golf game.  Just sayin...

[x129]

The OP was not "Can I become a scratch golfer". It was "if I play 3 times a week and don't go to a range or have a teacher will I go from an 18 (roughly) to scratch". The answer to the second question is pretty clearly no. Everyone has a dozen guys in their golf league that pretty much do that and year to year their handicaps stay about the same. The first question is much harder to answer. It is hard to predict the results of training.

Originally Posted by kurisu

wow, you guys are all so positive and encouraging.

There are different ways to say "no chance" to someone that might also avoid making the guy lose his confidence.

The way to scratch goes through stages. If the guy sets his target on scratch, dedicates his time to more practice, rather than meaningless play, he will drop his handicap. How low will he eventually get to? under 10? under 7?

Will he actually realise he may never get down to scratch along the way? most probably.

But he may find himself happy with knowing he tried his hardest and reach the maximum level he can.

And that's probably his true target.

[zeg]

I don't think it's ultimately doing him a favor to be positive and encouraging if it's not honest.  Sure, he *can*, but just literally answering "yes, work hard big guy" and cheerleading doesn't really help.

The takeaway from this thread, even with the apparent negativity, is still positive.  If he really wants to get there, he has to face the reality that it is going to take a lot of work.  That he's still in mid to high teens handicap after a few years of playing suggests he's not one of those guys who will just take to it like a fish to water.  The amount of work is such that most guys in his position won't make it.  If he's serious, he's going to have to make a serious commitment and pay the dues.

At least, that's my take on things.  I hope to get to scratch level some day, but I recognize that I'll have to find a way to commit more time and energy to the game than I can do right now.  Threads like this don't discourage me at all, because I accept the reality of how darn hard it is to be that good.

[CG031]

I've been playing for 5 years now. In the next 5 years, I hope to be down to scratch (Well, better, but I've come to realize that being better than scratch probably isn't realistic...). Right now I'm a 5 handicap.

I don't see why in ten years you couldn't be if you're willing to dedicate yourself to practicing, and playing as often as you can for the next few seasons. And taking some lessons would probably help.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by kurisu

wow, you guys are all so positive and encouraging.

There are different ways to say "no chance" to someone that might also avoid making the guy lose his confidence.

The way to scratch goes through stages. If the guy sets his target on scratch, dedicates his time to more practice, rather than meaningless play, he will drop his handicap. How low will he eventually get to? under 10? under 7?

Will he actually realise he may never get down to scratch along the way? most probably.

But he may find himself happy with knowing he tried his hardest and reach the maximum level he can.

And that's probably his true target.

People who ask the kind of questions asked by the OP have never seen a really good player in the flesh.

They don't realizse how long and controlled the driving of a very low marker is.

They have no idea that 3 errors of judgement in a round change a 75 to an 80.

It doesn't just happen because you've played another 10 years. You're doing the same thing over and over again. You aren't improving.

Apart from the fact that it is ridiculous to ask complete strangers who have never seen you swing if you have the potential to be one of the best what - I don't what percenatge of players in the world - .01 %? Who knows. Ludicrous.

The reality of the matter is that someone who plays a couple of times a week and shoots in the 90s will most likely be doing exactly the same thing in 5, 10 and 20 years.

Of all the millions of people who play golf, a relative few become scratch players.

You will know it . They will know it.

You can watch someone stick a tee in the ground and you'll get a fair idea of their athleticism and coordination.

Watch them hit a single shot and you'll know what their abilities are.

[Gerald]

Yep, at an average golfclub (overhere) there are let's say 700-800 members, only about 2,5% is single digit and less than 0,3% is below 5.0 !

Close to scratch is maybe only 1 or 2 out of 1000 golfers.

Like you say there are so many pretty good golfers, playing around 10-14 index, sometimes they reach 9 and two months later they are back to 11, etc.

Most golfers striking good balls, being good at short play, even putting like 1.8 average, loosing maybe 1 ball per round, hitting one in a water hazard each round and still miss a few pars or even miss 1 or 2 bogeys per round, hitting a few thinned or fat shots per round, will play in the 12-16 handicap range all their golfing lifes.

Only the minority (seeing the sport in the game) have the dedication to focus on making pars and birdies and reach well below 8 something......

And all players like me or maybe even at half my index, know how easy it is to make a few mistakes (I would not even call them mistakes) and end up with a few bogeys or even a double bogey (or worse).... just watch the pro's making a double or tripple ...... it is so easy to turn in a low 80's round with just a little bit of bad luck and 7 missed birdies.

Going from 5 to 3 requires to become at least twice as good, not to mention what it takes to get from 15ish to scratch........

[shades9323]

Originally Posted by kurisu

wow, you guys are all so positive and encouraging.

There are different ways to say "no chance" to someone that might also avoid making the guy lose his confidence.

The way to scratch goes through stages. If the guy sets his target on scratch, dedicates his time to more practice, rather than meaningless play, he will drop his handicap. How low will he eventually get to? under 10? under 7?

Will he actually realise he may never get down to scratch along the way? most probably.

But he may find himself happy with knowing he tried his hardest and reach the maximum level he can.

And that's probably his true target.

He hasn't dedicated himself to practice yet, what makes you think he will do it in the future.  He gave no indication that he is willing to switch around his golf game to get more practice and/or a teacher.  It seemed like he was wondering if he was going to be able to get that good just from playing.