How bad can a plus capper play? AKA I played with a very delusional man today

[trickymicky69]

I played with a scratch golfer yesterday (I know this as he is my club pro)

I have seen him play before and the guy is brilliant.

I swear to god he must have hit about 20 duck hooks (irons and woods)

He didnt make any excuses either apart from (I seem to be clearing my hips too quickly etc etc)

It can happen to the best of us

[cody west]

ya pluses have bad day too. its not like they cant fall into it everyone knows the golf swing comes and goes...the only way to really tell was his short game and if it was his first time playing the course theres no doubt hes gonna miss some 5 footers because every course plays different. the course im a member at anything inside of 5 feet you probably dont want to give away the hole but the course i work at you have to die everything in because the greens are so fast and play so much break. theres more to it than raw score.

[newtogolf]

Some better golfers use practice rounds to try out new things they worked on at the range.  Plus as others have already said, great golfers have bad days too, look at how Phil is playing this weekend.

[TourSpoon]

I have seen guys that are players have a bad day and I have seen guys who are posers have a bad day. There is a big difference.

[arogolf]

I have seen guys that are players have a bad day and I have seen guys who are posers have a bad day. There is a big difference.

Well said. If you are a plus or pro, your fundamentals don't change that much, regardless if you are "trying something new" or not.

[uttexas]

My initial thoughts were that the guy is either delusional or a sandbagger. Sounds like he joined your group in the middle of the round, which is a bit odd. I've had really good players join me in the middle of the round, play half hazzardly, then I see them in the clubhouse trying to find a "game".

[hjimzaf]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I have seen guys that are players have a bad day and I have seen guys who are posers have a bad day. There is a big difference.

Bingo. Plus, his short game was bad. He was landing short of the green from inside 75-100 yds many times. This was not his first time playing the course either. He said he play there all the time because he like the twilight rate. ($20 after 2pm)

Originally Posted by uttexas

My initial thoughts were that the guy is either delusional or a sandbagger. Sounds like he joined your group in the middle of the round, which is a bit odd. I've had really good players join me in the middle of the round, play half hazzardly, then I see them in the clubhouse trying to find a "game".

We caught up to him because the group in front of him was slow. He moved up after almost killing one of us when he shanked his drive and sent a screamer that hit my bag to side of the white tees.

[skierbri10]

Didn't Rory shoot an 80 one day at this years masters? He played lights out pretty much at the open. I myself am in a slump so I can relate to this guy if in fact he is a + handicapper.

[B-Con]

I took an interest in this thread because back in the 90's I played in a number of Bremerton City Championships.  I checked the scores online for this year's tournament, and found that no one shot 69-73. And, I could be wrong, but having a sponsor (Allstate?) makes one a professional and, by definition, cannot play in amateur tournaments. Maybe only over a certain $ amount, but why would anyone sponsor an amateur?

Sounds like he doesn't qualify for the "good driver discount" either.

He can't win more than $750 in prize money, but I think that as long as his sponsor only pays for his golf competition-related expenses, [url=http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Amateur-Status/Rule-04/]he's OK[/url] -- at least, by how I read the rule.

[mattttt25]

Did you ever say what he shot?

Who knows what the story was.  I would have questioned it as well.  But my buddy, who shoots 80-85 almost every time we play, shot a 106 yesterday.  It happens.

[The_Pharaoh]

Here's the article I mentioned in my post above. OK, yes, I got some of it wrong but read it and weep people! These guys ARE good!!

http://thesandtrap.com/b/the_numbers_game/calculating_the_handicap_indeces_of_the_pros

[TourSpoon]

Like I said before, there is a big difference between a player and a poser. When a guy blurts out that he has a +1.7 to a couple of guys he doesn't even know, he is looking for some trouble, especially if he has nothing to back it up. A player who gets down to a plus number will have some kind of short game, swing, wow factor, anything to show you that he can play even if he doesn't score well. Sure, Rory can shoot an 80, but no one who watched him shoot that 80 would ever mistake him for a 5 cap, so let's get off the "everyone can have a bad day" bit especially when we are talking muni golf from the white tees.

I played a practice round with 2 mini tour pros a while back the day before a local tournament. It was evident, regardless of the outcome, who had game. One had the swing, tempo, short game, and putting stroke that you would expect from a plus, and the other guy had the game of a 5 cap.  It wasn't hard to see that the second guy was struggling, but what he was struggling with was basic fundamentals. The result was a sub-par round and an 82. Again, even if the first guy were to beat it around (which I have seen him do) he still has the elements of what makes him a plus shining through the bad score.

[JayMc]

Very nice!

Originally Posted by turtleback

Was his name Justin?

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Gerald

Well OK, these tour players are very good, but most people are telling us all the time they are a +7 to +10 handicapper, but that is not really the case.

No matter how "easy" the course, even for these guys it is hard to shoot more than let's say 6 birdies in a round and even at shorter courses a par 4 is still a par 4 and if the par 4 is not reachable with a drive, there are no guarantees for making a row of birdies, not even at the average homecourse and the greens at average homecourses will be less predictable, the bunkers can be harder, etc.

Besides that not all tour events are held at those superlong courses, many are (at least in Europe) at the same courses we play from the back tees, and also there come these superstars, but we don't see scores of minus 30 over 72 holes.

Looking at the shorter courses Tour events, the winner is a guy maybe playing -20 in 4 days, but 10th place orso, even at these kind of courses is mostly not lower than around -10.

We all know how good these guys can play, but they will not likely play a +9 handicap at your homecourse.

The best have maybe "only" a +4 or at best a +5 handicap, and of course they can play below at certain days, but that doesn't give them a +9 handicap.

I don't know about this. My home course is about 6500 yards from the tips and plays to a 135 slope. The longest par 4 is about 420 yards. The pros would be hitting half wedges into the par 4's and none of the par 5's would require more than a mid-iron second shot. They'd eat this course alive. I'd be surprised if they didn't break 60 regularly. That would put them at a +11 handicap. It's not an easy track due to wetlands and some tight landing areas but they would certainly shoot 35 strokes better than my average mid-90's scores.

[NI4NI]

His parents must have been prodigenous breeders since golf courses around the world are littered with same-minded +HC players

[funkyfred72]

Originally Posted by hjimzaf

He also said that he was sponsored by Allstate.

Did he have anything on his bag or shirt or anything else that said "Allstate?"  If not I bet a relative of his works there and just paid for his entrance fee.

[ND Fan]

Actually if you look at it for what it is, the course rating as related to your handicap.

At most tour events they are playing courses that almost all have a 76 or higher course rating, throw in tour set up and that number increases by one at least.  Given that your handicap is based on your best out of five rounds a typical tour player is playing to more like +7 or +8.  The winner is most definitely playing to a +10 in any given week if they shoot 14 or more under.

I am +1 and there is some pressure to perform that way every round but a plus one is expected to average around par or even slightly higher.  I am fairly consistent but i have shot a couple rounds of 74 or 75 this year but for the most part I keep it between 3 under to even par.

Our home course is a fairly short but tight, slope rating of 133.  If they held a tour even there I would anticipate the leaders shooting 8 to 10 under every round.

The courses these guys play week in and week out are much more difficult that the typical golf course.

A tour player that had a legit +4 wouldn't be a tour player for very long.  I am light years away form that kind of golf.  Mickleson would have to give me 4-5 per side before I even thought about playing him for anything worthwhile.

Was this guy legit?  Hell no... He's not sponsored by All State, his dad probably owns an office with that on the sign so I guess he feels better saying that.  His vanity handicap is a result of playing with the old man or by himself with some creative scoring.  Too many golfers out there want everyone to think how great they are as a result of all the stories.  I prefer to see a guy who you know is great by simple observation.  I have an endless supply of personal stories on the golf course I have shot some great rounds and hit some great shots.  I learned many many years go that I am the only person who really cares.  I keep em to myself because to do otherwise is just plain arrogance.

The more a guy talks about how great he is the more likely he's just another 5-6 handicap that thinks he's a whole lot better than he is.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by ND Fan

The more a guy talks about how great he is the more likely he's just another 5-6 handicap that thinks he's a whole lot better than he is.

Yep...