Elbow Position and Its Effects on the Downswing

[Stretch]

Long thumb lets you hinge your left wrist more, or at least more easily. Short thumb lets you support the club more firmly at the top of the backswing. If you're worrying about lag then long is the way to go.

[boogielicious]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Mike, that's fantastic.  Like I mentioned Friday, I had been having trouble understanding James telling me to "move my left thumb more down the shaft" until you showed me.  I had thought he simply meant more straight down the shaft AS OPPOSED to around the shaft, not FURTHER down the shaft.

Pretty sure that if he had used this language I would have understood it immediately. :)  (Just for your future reference) :)

OK, now we need pictures.

[cipher]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Mike, that's fantastic.  Like I mentioned Friday, I had been having trouble understanding James telling me to "move my left thumb more down the shaft" until you showed me.  I had thought he simply meant more straight down the shaft AS OPPOSED to around the shaft, not FURTHER down the shaft.

Pretty sure that if he had used this language I would have understood it immediately. :)  (Just for your future reference) :)

Ok, I am confused as well.  What do you mean by around the shaft?  Around the side?  I have not had James mention this to me before.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by cipher

I have not had James mention this to me before.

Then don't worry about it...

Seriously. Don't take someone ELSE's swing advice.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

OK, now we need pictures.

Notice the yellow stripe and keep in mind that my fingers haven't moved, just my thumb.  All along I thought James was just asking me to go from A to B, when really what he wanted was C.

Originally Posted by cipher

Ok, I am confused as well.  What do you mean by around the shaft?  Around the side?  I have not had James mention this to me before.

Originally Posted by iacas

Then don't worry about it...

Seriously. Don't take someone ELSE's swing advice.

Exactly.  If James hadn't mentioned it to you before, then it's not important for you.  I was mainly just trying to let the instructors know that when they need to give that piece of advice, to consider saying it exactly like Mike said it, because that was a lot clearer to me than how James had been saying it previously.

[mvmac]

This thread is getting OT so I responded here

http://thesandtrap.com/t/43269/short-thumb-vs-long-thumb#post_831007

[Talldude]

Originally Posted by mvmac

This thread is getting OT so I responded here

http://thesandtrap.com/t/43269/short-thumb-vs-long-thumb#post_831007

Thanks, Mike & All!  I'll Ask My PGA Pro Today What is best for me during my lesson.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Talldude

Thanks, Mike & All!  I'll Ask My PGA Pro Today What is best for me during my lesson.

lol I can probably guess what he's going to say

[Talldude]

Originally Posted by mvmac

lol I can probably guess what he's going to say

He Teaches TGM Theory & He Recommended The "Short Thumb" For More Control With My Huge Mitts! LOL! I'm 6'10" & wear a XXL glove.  My main problem is my right elbow gets behind my body on the backswing.  He worked today with me on keeping my arms, particularly  my right arm & elbow in front of my chest throughout the swing.  The only way I could do it at first was to pause at the top of the backswing, making sure the right elbow was in front, then go through the shot.  I then did the same movement in very slow motion without the pause.  Hitting it much better so far.  Thanks for your input!

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Talldude

He Teaches TGM Theory & He Recommended The "Short Thumb" For More Control With My Huge Mitts! LOL! I'm 6'10" & wear a XXL glove.  My main problem is my right elbow gets behind my body on the backswing.  He worked today with me on keeping my arms, particularly  my right arm & elbow in front of my chest throughout the swing.  The only way I could do it at first was to pause at the top of the backswing, making sure the right elbow was in front, then go through the shot.  I then did the same movement in very slow motion without the pause.  Hitting it much better so far.  Thanks for your input!

My bad then, if he's TGM then he's better than most.  I still tend to disagree in regards to control but it depends on the player.  Great to hear about the progress today.

[Talldude]

Originally Posted by mvmac

My bad then, if he's TGM then he's better than most.  I still tend to disagree in regards to control but it depends on the player.  Great to hear about the progress today.

He Almost Quoted Steve Elkington exactly." With a short left thumb, the grip is more stable; You feel it in the bone".

http://secretinthedirt.com/index.php/the-vault/video-vault/viewvideo/1898/setup-gripstanceposture/locker-room-lesson-with-

[boogielicious]

Back OT.  I find it easier to work the right elbow into the proper position with longer clubs than shorter ones.  I was working on this the other day and that is when I noticed it.  My PW was overdrawing and I couldn't figure out why.  I went back to basics to figure it out.  Could this be because my arms are closer to my body with short irons and wedges?  Any tips to correct?

[Talldude]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Back OT.  I find it easier to work the right elbow into the proper position with longer clubs than shorter ones.  I was working on this the other day and that is when I noticed it.  My PW was overdrawing and I couldn't figure out why.  I went back to basics to figure it out.  Could this be because my arms are closer to my body with short irons and wedges?  Any tips to correct?

That's weird.  I have more trouble with my elbow getting behind me with the longer swing & clubs like the driver & fairway woods.  I try to keep my right elbow as far in front of my chest as I can throughout the swing.  It feels totally unnatural, now, but my ball striking is much better!

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Back OT.  I find it easier to work the right elbow into the proper position with longer clubs than shorter ones.  I was working on this the other day and that is when I noticed it.  My PW was overdrawing and I couldn't figure out why.  I went back to basics to figure it out.  Could this be because my arms are closer to my body with short irons and wedges?  Any tips to correct?

Was the ball starting at the target and over curving or right of the target and over curving?

[boogielicious]

At target and over curving.  I think it is a combination of elbow and weight forward.  Worked on it more today and I had more success focusing on weight forward with the elbow in combination.  I broke it down with slower swings.  Still, the miss with irons is over draw (start at target and draw left).  With the driver, it is slight fade to 10-15 yard fade when I use the same feelings.

[Ernest Jones]

@iacas

Can you elaborate a little on the possible pitfalls of the "loopy" feel? I'm working on flattening my DS a little and so far the loopy feel is what has worked best but I'm a little wary of it because I've always interpreted loop=bad. Next practice session I'm going to see how the "elbow to the belly button" and "squeeze the elbows" feels affect my DS.

Originally Posted by iacas

Obviously, fixing your backswing is going to help. Though it was terrible advice for Ray Romano, Hank Haney made a big deal out of "loop it the other way." Think of Tiger Woods - steep backswing, shallow the club through the transition. Rickie Fowler, too. If you're coming in from under the plane and the club tips out, good luck - sometimes fixing the backswing will allow you to make a better downswing. Jim Furyk swing (I've previously employed this feeling too).

Squeeze the elbows together. In the left image, my right elbow is getting behind my body, but if I actively squeeze them together during the transition and first stages of the downswing, my right elbow will get more in front of my body (i.e. where my left elbow is).

Try to get your right elbow to your belly button in transition. You won't get anywhere close, but get it as close as you can.

Employ more right forearm fanning from P2.5 or so onward and don't let your right elbow get behind (or near) your shirt seam to begin with.

Point your watch (on the back of your left wrist) to the sky.

My favorite, because it works pretty well for me (came up with it on the golf course while practicing #2), is to feel like my right shoulder gets as far away from my right ear as possible starting at P3.8. Firmer wrists help - if the clubhead is flopping around it'll tend to tip out a little as the swing gets a bit sloppy-long. This works because, again, your upper arm doesn't collapse or expand, so if you drive the right shoulder down the elbow will go down as well.

There are just a few feelings. I can't give them all away!

I hope this information helps you. I look forward to the discussion around this topic.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Can you elaborate a little on the possible pitfalls of the "loopy" feel? I'm working on flattening my DS a little and so far the loopy feel is what has worked best but I'm a little wary of it because I've always interpreted loop=bad. Next practice session I'm going to see how the "elbow to the belly button" and "squeeze the elbows" feels affect my DS.

Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's bad.

Can you be more specific? Sometimes what feels like a loop actually isn't a loop at all. Jim Furyk's swing feels like it's not all over the place, but it clearly is.

Feel ain't real. "Feeling a loop" could be good for awhile.

[Ernest Jones]

Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's bad. Can you be more specific? Sometimes what feels like a loop actually isn't a loop at all. Jim Furyk's swing feels like it's not all over the place, but it clearly is. Feel ain't real. "Feeling a loop" could be good for awhile.

Well it looks pretty loopy on video. I'm going to play around with the elbow squeeze and driving into the belly button feels this evening to see if it still gives me good results with flattening out my shaft on the DS. The loopy feel gets me about 10* shallower on a good swing. I'll send in a video to Evolvr and just check with Stephan that I'm on the right track with this. Thanks.