deceleration at impact

[bplewis24]

Again, I think you're being too defensive about this as I don't think anybody was giving swing change advice, per se.  That said, if you're opposed to any swing advice, that's your perogative.  But I digress...am I reading it correctly that you shot a par 36 over 9 holes on a full-length course?

Brandon

[Golfs-for-Fun]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Again, I think you're being too defensive about this as I don't think anybody was giving swing change advice, per se.  That said, if you're opposed to any swing advice, that's your perogative.  But I digress...am I reading it correctly that you shot a par 36 over 9 holes on a full-length course?

Brandon

I probably am being too defensive, Im sure iacas can fill you in on that little bit.

Nope, didnt shoot par...not sure what my score was as I was just working on my long game and didnt putt most of the holes.

I started putting after the two guys asked me to join up with them, got bogeys on the holes I did score.

What I meant was that I played 9 holes.....my wording was definitely poorly chosen. I was thinking more about each 9 being 36 strokes normally. My bad on that point. What my point was that out of the whole 9 holes I only had one shot go off a fairway, which isnt too damned bad.

Now that I think about it the comment I made was absolutlely stupid considering the fact that out of the 36 strokes for 9 holes 18 of them would be putts and not likely to be off of the fairway anyway :-D

Lets put it that in 9 holes I had one ball go off the fairway. The rest were all in the fairway.

Next time I'll have to make sure to insert the brain before posting

:-D

[Golfs-for-Fun]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Again, I think you're being too defensive about this as I don't think anybody was giving swing change advice, per se.  That said, if you're opposed to any swing advice, that's your perogative.  But I digress...am I reading it correctly that you shot a par 36 over 9 holes on a full-length course?

Brandon

Which reminds me.

I was on a long ass par 5 and my approach shot to the green was pretty much perfect as far as distance, but the wind carried the ball to the right of the green into a bunker.

No biggie as far as I was concerned seeing that if the wind hadnt kicked up I would have been on in 3 using a 5 wood off the tee and two 7 wood fairway shots....but that damned bunker had a small backhoe sitting next to it.

When I got up to where my ball should have been in the bunker I realize they had a HUGE hole dug out of the bunker and it was filled with water all the way and there pretty much was no sand to be seen where my ball was.

The guy I was playing with said this was a free drop because of the construction, but I didnt see anything on a sign anywhere.

Would this be the case if the bunker was filled with water because they were working on the underground water lines under that bunker?

[Golfs-for-Fun]

Concerning 'accelerating THROUGH the ball', I'd like to offer a quote;

Number One: Step on It

There is no shot in golf that should be hit with a slowing clubhead. In other words, the clubhead should always accelerate through the ball. From drives, to chips, to wedge shots, to putts, the clubhead should accelerate on each. (I think this might be the only inarguable point in the bunch here.)

http://thesandtrap.com/b/trap_five/my_nearly_indisputable_truisms_of_golf

Based on my experience the last 6 months, I agree wholeheartedly with the view above.

[bunkerputt]

In my experience, the number of people who don't accelerate through the ball enough far outnumber the ones who are leaving some in the tank with too much lag.  If that's your problem, there are a million ways to throw the club head.  Pick one.  Too much of either will lead to distance and control problems.  I think Iacas was simply saying you can gain distance and control by not having too much forward shaft lean at impact.  Most consistent but short-off-the-tee golfers are consistent because they are short.  They are swinging slowly so there is plenty of time to make compensation, plus the lack of ball speed minimizes the effect of poor side spin.  I think in a lot of ways it's easier being a girl starting out at golf because you just don't have the muscles or the mentality to smash the ball.

[Golfs-for-Fun]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

In my experience, the number of people who don't accelerate through the ball enough far outnumber the ones who are leaving some in the tank with too much lag.  If that's your problem, there are a million ways to throw the club head.  Pick one.  Too much of either will lead to distance and control problems.  I think Iacas was simply saying you can gain distance and control by not having too much forward shaft lean at impact.  Most consistent but short-off-the-tee golfers are consistent because they are short.  They are swinging slowly so there is plenty of time to make compensation, plus the lack of ball speed minimizes the effect of poor side spin.  I think in a lot of ways it's easier being a girl starting out at golf because you just don't have the muscles or the mentality to smash the ball.

too much  forward lean isnt a problem.

Again, not really sure why 'acceleration thru the ball' is meant to say 'swinging fast'.  If I swing at 28 mph I could STILL be 'accelerating thru the ball' at that speed. If anything my swing looks pretty slow. Club head speed for a 6 iron is around 80mph...certainly not breaking any traffic laws. And I never try to literally 'smash' the ball. The only reference Ive made to doing something like that was to help someone in the mental game as a 'distraction' to keep them from thinking about otehr guys watching them take their shot.

Im doing what works for me and certain am NOT interested in changing things again for previously stated reasons. While I appreciate the effort it takes to type up a post, I already know what happens when I take random snippets of advice from internet sources.

My swing is working just fine for me currently. I have distance and I have control. One shot being off the fairway due to a bit of a push and a hell of a lot of wind in 9 holes is pretty damned good for someone only playing 6 months.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfs-for-Fun

All that will happen if I start taking advice again is my swing will get $#%#ed up again.

You've missed the point yet again.

Originally Posted by Golfs-for-Fun

I probably am being too defensive, Im sure iacas can fill you in on that little bit.

Yeah. Here's the fill-in part: Golfs-For-Fun is a jerk weirdo who seems to misunderstand things others say as a general rule, and then he resorts to calling people *******s and shithead suckers .

Originally Posted by Golfs-for-Fun

The guy I was playing with said this was a free drop because of the construction, but I didnt see anything on a sign anywhere.

Would this be the case if the bunker was filled with water because they were working on the underground water lines under that bunker?

How on earth is that on topic?

Originally Posted by Golfs-for-Fun

Concerning 'accelerating THROUGH the ball', I'd like to offer a quote;

It doesn't happen. Sorry. It may be a good feel for certain people but if you're actually accelerating past impact you're giving up distance. Period.

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

I think Iacas was simply saying you can gain distance and control by not having too much forward shaft lean at impact.

While what you say is true (too much shaft lean reduces distance), that's not what I'm saying here exactly. I'm simply pointing out that the maximum clubhead speed should be reached just as the clubhead touches the back of the ball. Not before, and not after.

And I doubt very much that GFF has "too much forward shaft lean at impact."

Originally Posted by Golfs-for-Fun

Again, not really sure why 'acceleration thru the ball' is meant to say 'swinging fast'.  If I swing at 28 mph I could STILL be 'accelerating thru the ball' at that speed. If anything my swing looks pretty slow.

The new misunderstanding? I haven't taken it to mean that you're "swinging fast." Heck, I'm arguing the opposite: you're swinging more slowly than you should be if you are still able to accelerate after impact.

[Golfs-for-Fun]

Quote:

You've missed the point yet again.

Your childishness, as last time I stopped by here, is becoming boring.

This time around Im not letting you draw me in...sorry.

I accelerate thru the ball AS PER a huge number of PROFESSIONAL instructors , and apparently sources from THIS website , and you really neednt concern yourself about it.

What Im doing works for ME and thats all that matters....Period.

Quote:

Number One: Step on It
There is no shot in golf that should be hit with a slowing clubhead . In other words, the clubhead should always accelerate through the ball . From drives, to chips, to wedge shots, to putts, the clubhead should accelerate on each. (I think this might be the only inarguable point in the bunch here.)

http://thesandtrap.com/b/trap_five/my_nearly_indisputable_truisms_of_golf

So...we done here?

[colin007]

dude, you dont get it.  do you know what acceleration means?

if you are "accelerating thru the ball" then you are reaching peak swing speed AFTER YOU HIT THE BALL!!!!!  if thats your goal, then you keep doing what youre doing.  the rest of us will have the goal of hitting the ball at top swing speed, not waiting to reach that speed until after the ball has been hit.

[Golfs-for-Fun]

Originally Posted by colin007

dude, you dont get it.  do you know what acceleration means?

if you are "accelerating thru the ball" then you are reaching peak swing speed AFTER YOU HIT THE BALL!!!!!  if thats your goal, then you keep doing what youre doing.  the rest of us will have the goal of hitting the ball at top swing speed, not waiting to reach that speed until after the ball has been hit.

I guess the question would be do YOU know what 'accelerate' means?

See, I own a Websters and unless EVERY golf teacher out there DOESNT own one, then 'accelerate' MEANS 'accelerate'.

And I understand what you mean to say, but the FACT is that if you are trying to let off the gas just after impact then you are clearly TRYING to slow down....which is hardly conducive to hitting the ball very far.

Thinking about accelerating THROUGH the ball keeps the mind and body focused on keeping the club head speed up rather than laying off the gas.

I hardly am able to accelerate much more than impact speed after the ball...it is the fact that Im NOT SLOWING DOWN, as per the article on THIS WEBSITE, that is the POINT of 'accelerating THROUGH the ball'.

If YOU and iacas choose to literallly let off the gas a millisecond after you think youve contacted the ball, that is for YOU to choose.

I choose to do what most professional instructors have said and what THIS WEBSITE has stated pretty clearly.

Making sense yet?

Argue with THIS guy, not me.

Number One: Step on It

There is no shot in golf that should be hit with a slowing clubhead. In other words, the clubhead should always accelerate through the ball. From drives, to chips, to wedge shots, to putts, the clubhead should accelerate on each. (I think this might be the only inarguable point in the bunch here.)

http://thesandtrap.com/b/trap_five/my_nearly_indisputable_truisms_of_golf

[Golfs-for-Fun]

Thinking about it I seem to remember this same problem the last time I stopped by here...bad advice that contradicts pretty much EVERY decent bit of instruction out there.

Seems that this may have been the site where the  local 'instructor' told me that he never 'instructs' his students to keep their eye on the ball.

Its almost as though said instructor doesnt seem to comprehend that in keeping the eye the ball the brain is  constantly taking in information and then is able to coordinate the whole body using that information. Probably why we dont play baseball with our eyes closed...just a hunch, however.

And we wonder why some of us refuse to just jump on every little tidbit of 'instruction' tossed out on the web...

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by Golfs-for-Fun

If YOU and iacas choose to literallly let off the gas a millisecond after you think youve contacted the ball, that is for YOU to choose.

I choose to do what most professional instructors have said and what THIS WEBSITE has stated pretty clearly.

That's not a choice per say, but the product of a well executed golf swing. The idea is to be at maximum speed at impact and therefore the swing should slow down after that point. That theory hasn't changed in the 35 years I've been playing the game, no matter how you wish to twist someone's less than perfect choice of words. You are misinterpreting "acceleration through the ball" to be the same thing as you saying your clubhead is "still accelerating well after impact" when it clearly wasn't meant in that matter. In fact, the guy's primary thought was "no golf shot should be hit with a slowing clubhead" was exactly right. The club should be accelerating all the way to the point of impact, where it should reach maximum speed and then naturally snap off (decelerate) after that.

[Ernest Jones]

The way I understand it, if you are truly "swinging" the club and not manipulating it, it stands to reason that it will reach maximum speed at the bottom of the arc. Any attempt, consciously or sub-consciously, to alter this dynamic means that you are loosing speed.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfs-for-Fun

Your childishness, as last time I stopped by here, is becoming boring.

Back to that approach eh?

Originally Posted by Golfs-for-Fun

I accelerate thru the ball AS PER a huge number of PROFESSIONAL instructors

Again, a good feeling for some people to have, but if you're actually doing it then you're not hitting the ball as far as you should.

That's all I've said. You, once again, have misinterpreted basic English.

Originally Posted by Golfs-for-Fun

So...we done here?

Well, you are until March 1. Strike two.
BTW, kudos for defining "accelerate" as "accelerate." Good job.

Originally Posted by Golfs-for-Fun

Seems that this may have been the site where the  local 'instructor' told me that he never 'instructs' his students to keep their eye on the ball.

Its almost as though said instructor doesnt seem to comprehend that in keeping the eye the ball the brain is  constantly taking in information and then is able to coordinate the whole body using that information. Probably why we dont play baseball with our eyes closed...just a hunch, however.

I can play golf better with my eyes closed than you can with them open.

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

That's not a choice per say, but the product of a well executed golf swing. The idea is to be at maximum speed at impact and therefore the swing should slow down after that point. That theory hasn't changed in the 35 years I've been playing the game, no matter how you wish to twist someone's less than perfect choice of words. You are misinterpreting "acceleration through the ball" to be the same thing as you saying your clubhead is "still accelerating well after impact" when it clearly wasn't meant in that matter. In fact, the guy's primary thought was "no golf shot should be hit with a slowing clubhead" was exactly right. The club should be accelerating all the way to the point of impact, where it should reach maximum speed and then naturally snap off (decelerate) after that.

Exactly. More misinterpretation from GFF. Maximum speed AT the ball. Any other time and it's wasted speed. Some people tend to "guide" the clubhead into the ball.

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

The way I understand it, if you are truly "swinging" the club and not manipulating it, it stands to reason that it will reach maximum speed at the bottom of the arc. Any attempt, consciously or sub-consciously, to alter this dynamic means that you are loosing speed.

Yep. I'd tend to agree.

[newtogolf]

The issue is the use of the word "accelerate" which means to increase in speed.  If your club speed is 80mph at ball contact and you believe that you are accelerating past ball contact then you're saying that your club head speed is over 80mph past ball contact.  There's two issues with this statement; 1) ball contact will cause your club head to decelerate.  2)  If you believe you can accelerate past the point of ball contact you're not making contact with the ball at your maximum club head speed and thus is the reason people are tell you you're losing distance.  It's semantics and possibly mechanics.

Originally Posted by Golfs-for-Fun

too much  forward lean isnt a problem.

Again, not really sure why 'acceleration thru the ball' is meant to say 'swinging fast'.  If I swing at 28 mph I could STILL be 'accelerating thru the ball' at that speed.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

The issue is the use of the word "accelerate" which means to increase in speed.  If your club speed is 80mph at ball contact and you believe that you are accelerating past ball contact then you're saying that your club head speed is over 80mph past ball contact.  There's two issues with this statement; 1) ball contact will cause your club head to decelerate.  2)  If you believe you can accelerate past the point of ball contact you're not making contact with the ball at your maximum club head speed and thus is the reason people are tell you you're losing distance.  It's semantics and possibly mechanics.

It is semantics, but clearly also a guy who simply doesn't understand that the claim he is making isn't likely to be true.  If you explain the logic behind why it's either untrue or less than optimal, then you are also giving him swing advice and trying to mess up his precocious swing.

Brandon

[newtogolf]

I agree, he's clearly set in his ways and not open to outside thoughts or advice.  I was simply trying to explain to him what everyone was saying and possibly diffuse the situation.  Looks like I was too late he's already in the penalty box.

Originally Posted by bplewis24

It is semantics, but clearly also a guy who simply doesn't understand that the claim he is making isn't likely to be true.  If you explain the logic behind why it's either untrue or less than optimal, then you are also giving him swing advice and trying to mess up his precocious swing.

Brandon

[iacas]

It doesn't matter. He's gone again for several weeks and sent me another snotty PM declaring victory once again (albeit with less swearing).

Thanks guys. If this post has a valid original topic, hopefully we can get back to it.